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November 02, 2020


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Trump's performance has been abysmal. We have less jobs than when he took office and the deficit hit an all time record this fiscal year. The Republicans failed to even enact a party platform, because Trump is the platform.

If this was a popular vote, I'm confident Biden would win handily. However, I have no idea what will happen in the Electoral College count. I find that I am incapable of understanding what the average voter thinks or how they will vote. I do believe the polls probably understate Trump's support, especially in the so-called swing states, which now include Arizona. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

This should be Az’s new motto. . Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Since Az main expense is education ,I feel sorry for our teachers. It is the first thing we will cut

Trump knows he's going to lose. He called Fox & Friends this morning to suggest he won't even attempt the Third World power move of contesting the vote count. Given the man's depravity and the grotesque cowardice of GOP elected officials, we still need to maintain our guard for the next several months. I fully expect random violence but no concerted effort to overthrow democracy itself. The ongoing problem for America is Fox News, and Rupert Murdoch in particular. If I were Biden, I'd be tempted to order a drone strike on him since he's been terrorizing our nation since 1994. I can't think of any one person who has done more systemic damage to our democracy than this geriatric quisling.

I don't know if anyone here has been following the Republican-friendly polling world. To keep my sanity, I have for quite a while now. Now, perhaps it's my bias making me intellectually susceptible, but I am convinced based on data that Trump will win if he gets a decent turn out today. We will see, but I have a feeling we will know tonight in practice if not officially.

If you have the stomach, you might turn away from CNN or where ever occasionally tonight and watch this site: https://www.decisionusaonline.com/
They are bullish on Trump and don't trust exit polls. If they are anxious, you'll know Biden is doing well. If they are happy, Biden supporters should worry regardless of what CNN is saying.

So much for the knowing on election night part!

Here's a link to Sam Harris discussing why Trump supporters feel the way they do, and why not to be an asshole around them.


Thanks for sharing that clip, Soleri. It provides an interesting point of view.

I wonder if there will be another round of protests at the Maricopa County Recorder's Office tonight. I wasn't surprised to see the odious carpetbagger, Rep. Paul Gosar, amongst the protesters last night. The YouTube clip that Soleri shared almost perfectly describes Gosar, too.

Thanks for that video, Solari. I would agree with that, though of course it's not universal, but probably applies particularly to people who are fans of Trump personally (as opposed to people like me whose approach is more utilitarian or policy related). He is remarkably unsanctimonious and having an "of the people" air for a billionaire/celebrity.

If you or other readers are in an understanding mood, I'll play the conservative sherpa. Yes the president was way early in using the "f" word, but his supporters who suspect fraud are not necessarily crazy or malicious. I'm not there 100% myself, but I'm worried. However things turn out, it's not a good situation for our country. If you're interested in how reasonable people could think that, this video is about as good as you'll find. It is long and gets pretty deep into analysis, but the first 20 minutes pretty well cover why people are flipping out over the count so far.


Jon 7190, the irony here is fairly obvious: Trump says in September that the only way he can lose is through election fraud. He has no evidence but he has loads of amplification in right-wing media. He even spelled out the game plan, specifically demanding that vote counting in Pennsylvania be restricted to election day, thus potentially invalidating millions of mail-in ballots. He tells his followers to vote at the polls on election day, however.

Trump's reputation for corrupton is unparalleled in American life. He's a pathological liar who at the same time often blurts out the truth as he did above. Trump's tendency to project his own criminal instincts onto his opponents is instructive here. There is, on the one hand, absolutely no evidence that Democrats did anything illegal. There is on the other Trump's brazen effort to win the election through fraudulent efforts. His cult is convinced of his cause even though they often acknowledge his roguish habits as somehow endearing.

American democracy is failing before our unblinkered eyes. There is absolutely no way for it to succeed if we can even agree on the broad outlines of reality. The war of all against all is only going to get worse in America as Trump stokes rage and contempt against his opponents in the coming years. You will believe him but the cost will be our political sanity and national cohesion. There is enough blame to go around, which is why I want to understand how your tribe feels the way it does. At the same time, if you can't honor the basic mechanism of voting itself, you have effectively become an enemy combatant in the war against democracy.

Assuming the Biden leads holds, what next for the Democrats...Run left, right or center?

And the Republicans will be saying next year "Donald who?"

Will one or both parties split, as some have suggested? Or just more of the same?

A quieter more subtle version of planet manifest destiny.

Biden declared the winner. Now is the time for partisans to become patriots and put country over party. No more hysterical allegations based on rumors and propaganda. No more disinformation disguised as "factual". The Republican war on democratic norms may be their most shameful episode since they became a party in 1854. Let us pray they now manifest some necessary decency because Trumpism has been a cancer on our national unity.

Cal, you may be right, a la one of today's Front Page links: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/trump-proved-authoritarians-can-get-elected-america/617023/. I've been reading the pieces by Tufekci and think she has a very good understanding of what's going.

She wrote another piece yesterday that is also worth reading: https://zeynep.substack.com/p/beating-trump-was-the-easy-part.

I hope you all are doing well! I've been reading and following but not commenting. I really need to visit Arizona. Need some desert and pine. With this pandemic, however, I cannot leave New England, come back and quarantine for 2 weeks: can you day cabin fever.

That being said, I hope President-elect Biden (!!!) can make some inroads and reestablish a true pandemic response team.

Not only did Biden win the popular vote by a historic margin, and received the most votes in the history of the U.S., but he should win the Electoral College comfortably. Thank goodness...

Well, now we get to see what full on batshit crazy looks like. I believe Trump is incapable of behaving like a functional adult, and his destructive tendencies will be on full display over the next 70+ days.

He has to be careful who he pisses off.
Not many countries that wouldn't send him back to us.

One for the shrinks.
What does it say when a man plays golf on the day he loses the election to be the planets most powerful (and scary) person?

I’m betting on Dubai.

As our conversation goes forward, and to save time and space, let us adopt the initialism FOBC (full-on batshit crazy).

Should prove useful.

The media has been FOBC for a very long time. That won't change.

Assuming it was determinative In this election, has Covid been too high a price to pay to get rid of the real estate developer? Discuss.

Do you open the refrigerator to get something to eat and end up cleaning it out and forget to eat? But it was a mess.

Besides Trump and gang the current plague caught the attention of a number of folks about lifes priorties. If corn cobs make a comeback get the softer ones.

My thought is that Donald and Jared biggest issue is A few OC Oligarchs and Deutsche financial.

Phxsunfan, good to know you are still around. The Arizona Hispanics showed up for this election.

"Four Seasons Total Landscaping."
Does that have a mob echo sound?
Will Hoffa be there?

Trump will pursue fruitless lawsuits. He can’t help himself; it’s what he does. He will announce he’s running in 2024, because it’ll be a moneymaker for him. I hope he gets derailed by both state and federal criminal cases, not to mention his financial troubles.

As the vote count continues and Trump GAINS ground in AZ, only his dimwitted supporters would be shouting "stop the count".

I've met more than my fair share of die-hard Trump believers and I must say, they are not the sharpest crayons in the box.

Jon, thanks for the Archeology magazine article in the Arizona pages.


The predatory nature of Manifest Destiny didn’t die when the European invaders made it from the east coast to the west coast of America. It rose up out of a nap in the 70's and has been on a neocon murderous mission to dominate the planet every day since. Today 7.5 billion People are told to standby and wait to be saved by American politicians.

A lot will happen between now and
20 January 2021. Arizona could slip into Trumps column.
"It aint over till the fat lady sings"

Helen Highwater?
I hear where you live they only sell MAGA coloring books and that they come with a free sharpie pen?

Female, Black, Indian President?
“There is nothing moderate about breaking with 230 years of male presidents, all but one of them white.”   

There's nothing on my lips but hallelujah.

Can the election results be put on hold until April?
Will it go 5 to 4 for Trump winning the electoral college?

Even with a Biden presidency the Christian Fascists are still a powerful force to be reckoned with after the Leo Leonard pick for Trump of Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme court. Her membership in People of Praise, a far-right Catholic cult that practices “speaking in tongues” will keep Jesus White and Christianity Supreme.

Come on Cal. We all know Jesus was white.

And Italian. I've seen the pictures.

I have know some pretty "dark" Italians.
Here you go.
Joe who posts here just forwarded me this
A good read.

FOBC Installment I: firing Pentagon brass in a fit of pique, also known as breaking the crockery on the way out the door.

And if I were a bigger man, I would refrain from this, but, PeePee, come out, come out wherever you are. I await erudite analysis of the stolen election.

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