Days of rage

Charles Blonkenfeld photo

Former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods got it right when he tweeted, "We need to support and defend every protester. And we need to arrest and prosecute every single person who loots or damages private property. We can do both. We have to do both."

My two cents, after watching both peaceful protests and then the worst rioting and looting in modern Seattle history (yes, worse than the 1999 WTO): The events of the past several days are a combination of outrage over the murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer, criminals who took advantage of the situation, Trump, and cabin fever from weeks of Covid-19 lockdown.

As for Phoenix, it has a downtown again. I remember when pitiful protests against George W. Bush were held on the sidewalk at 24th Street and Camelback. Now, downtown has come back sufficiently to be a dense core and offer public spaces (and police headquarters, above) to see protests and damage similar to real cities. The rocks regrettably come with the farm.

I can't think of any analogy in the city's history. When Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in 1968, a disturbance around Eastlake Park was quickly put down and Mayor Milt Graham and black ministers held a community meeting to encourage calm. Now Gov. Doug Ducey has imposed a statewide curfew without consulting the mayors of Phoenix or Tucson.

Perhaps the trigger was the looting of Scottsdale Fashion Square and vicinity. If you're seeking "the uprising," this is the place to do it, not poor neighborhoods or downtowns. So is blocking freeways. And I remember Scottsdale's toxic resistance to light rail (WBIYB) because it would bring "those people." I was threatened with being shot for advocating light rail at a Scottsdale meeting. Guess what, geniuses, "those people" drive.

Everyone who is "woke" believes this will bring down Donald Trump, or even require the DNC to run Bernie Sanders (never mind the choice of Democratic voters). That would run in the face of history. After the urban riots and assassinations of 1968, Richard Nixon beat Hubert Humphrey running on a "law and order" promise. Now, in general, young protesters don't vote but anxious older white suburbanites do.

Maybe this time will be different. Trump is lazier than Nixon, who was also a shrewd, experienced pol, surrounded by cagey advisers to whom he listened. Trump doesn't even read. He's been in the bunker, literally, with the lights of the White House doused. Incapable of uniting or comforting the nation, Trump is speaking to his base via Twitter. Example: "These were the people that trashed Seattle years ago. Who’s paying for these people. I was appalled that 13 of Joe Biden’s staff were donating money to bail people out in Minneapolis. They should have stayed in jail until this is over (and beyond)."

Remember, the 2016 election was decided by 80,000 votes in three Midwest states  

It's a long time to November.

As for "police violence," the George Floyd murder should obviously be condemned and the fired officer be prosecuted. It's inarguable than African-Americans fare worse in encounters from many police forces than whites, Asians, or Hispanics.

When I was teaching at a small college in southeastern Oklahoma in 1982, a black engineer, Lennell Jeter, was arrested in Greenville, Texas, for armed robbery of a fast-food restaurant. Although he was obviously not guilty, he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. It took 16 months for friends, his wife, and the NAACP to get him released and exonerated. A police officer friend darkly joked that he should sue the city and require it to name a new building the Lennell Jeter Criminal Justice Center. Texas had a long history of racial lynchings.

Conceding all this, this fraught moment makes nuance and complexity impossible.

For example, failing to willingly comply with the police, much less fighting them, is inviting trouble. From the same period, I remember returning from Dallas and driving through Denison, Texas, on a divided highway. I wanted to get a Coke at a Burger King on the other side, so went into the left-turn lane, crossed the oncoming lanes, and found myself lit up by a Denison cruiser. The officer said I had run a stop sign. There was no stop sign. But I sat in the car, both hands on the top of the steering wheel driver's license in one, and apologized, saying I didn't see it. After a lecture, he let me go with a warning, but it was an unsettling experience. And I am white.

"Willing compliance" with police has declined, especially in "woke" cities such as Seattle (where the force is largely stood down after years of criticism). Again, this is inviting trouble.

I also wonder how police training has changed. In my years as an EMT-paramedic, I worked closely with police officers, both on calls and riding along with Phoenix PD and DPS. I can't recall any "control and dominate" move being to put your bent leg and body weight on a suspect's neck — and I was in some hairy fights and have scars as mementos. Batons were used more (even by my partners and I), but the Koga course was specifically intended to teach how to disable someone without serious injury. (Once, a Tempe cop, frustrated that he did not have control over the medical aspects of a scene, threatened to shoot me, and I believed him).

Videos and social media act as both sunlight on abuses and accelerants to misunderstandings. The Minneapolis affair looks clean cut. But others, not so much. We may not know what came before the video sequence or have other, essential angles. No matter. We’re learning civility is paper thin.

At least until Trump, things had been getting better. This, too, is drowned out in a culture of perpetual outrage. So, too, is history. The great achievements of the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s came through marches, sitdowns, "filling up the jails," boycotts. Few remember this. Martin Luther King Jr. called a majority of the country to its moral center, to redeem the check written in the Declaration of Independence.

I don't expect many of you to like this column, but if you've read this far, thanks. Stay safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

[Rich Weinroth]

I always read your columns to the end! I'm still stuck in Bethesda Maryland and I haven't been back in Phoenix since February. Obviously there were protests and disturbances in DC. People have a right to protest, but I don't know what you do when agitators and looters mix in with legitimate protesters. You don't want to limit peaceful protesters, but you don't want to allow looters free reign. It's tough on the police, but at least some of the police are responsible for getting us in the mess we are in. I think we need complete retraining of all police forces to emphasize deescalation of conflict and acting more as peace officers than military police and civilian review boards with more power to implement changes. But I do not claim any expertise in how to deal with these issues in the real world on a day to day basis.

[ὀστρακισμός]

Well thought-out piece and you're right, your readership won't like this column because it's a completely rational interpretation of the current situation - the left lives in a world of irrationality and fantasyland (I bet y'all still believe in the pee-dossier, right? I thought so).

The lefties here must be wearing WuFlu masks over their ears and eyes. Soleri says in a previous column:

"Right now, the GOP is insane with tribal passion."

Oh God - the irony. The Bernie left of your party is destroying Democrat held cities, counties, states - burning down PUBLIC HOUSING. Those same Democrat officials refuse to crack down on - yep, their base. Truly an amazing story.

The left eats itself, and has grown much more hungry during and after the Obama days.

These riots not only illustrated to every American why we need the 2nd amendment (along with "assault rifles"), but the Dem led ineptitude (really a clowncaresqe response) will have a negative electoral impact on blue states.

Oh also - will you leftists please condemn the rioters for not physically distancing?

[soleri]

Anarchists and/or Antifa are not Democrats. They're unlettered blowhards who romanticize their own impulse for mayhem and destruction. They have willing partners among right-wing nihilists, who are sometimes called "accelerationsists". Their common bond rests on the idea that Western governments are irreparably corrupt. As a result, the best thing white supremacists can do is accelerate their demise by sowing chaos and creating political tension. Accelerationist ideas have been cited in mass shooters’ manifestos and show up in online forums favored by the radical right.

The idea that Bernie supporters are Democrats is hilarious. Most are too cynical to see any redemptive purpose in party politics or incrementalism. Like Antifa and anarchists, they tend to by young, naive, and enlivened by the conceit that the destruction of political norms will midwife an eventual political revolution. This is analogous to the fantasy that a demented blowhard with a severe personality disorder will make America great again.

Extremists of the left and right resemble one another more than they do anyone or anything in the middle. Their preferred tactic is, however, is not voting, but violence. Trump is the dark angel of American decline, accelerating the culture war's pyromania that will eventually consume us in civil war. It's amazing to think anyone could regard him as either benign or competent. He's a malignant vulgarian who debases everything that comes into his warped field of vision. Unraveling America is the goal on both fringes. It's almost as if they're he same dark force than the polar opposites they pretend to be.

[arizonaeagletarian]

Well, I'm a lefty (in several ways), and a former Bernie supporter.

I have no problem with this column written by Jon Talton.

I would only add that I hope the small businesses damaged/looted by the opportunists have adequate insurance.

[B. Franklin]

One of the primary goals of the Second Amendment was to make sure the whites were armed and the non-whites weren't.
So the white Southerners could sleep at night, I suppose. Indeed, even free blacks were rarely permitted to own firearms.

Nowadays, of course, nearly anyone, regardless of skin color, can buy whatever firearms they want, including assault rifles, and as much ammo as they can afford.

Sort of levels the playing field, don't you think?

And the safety of the rest of us be damned.

Just another example of American Exceptionalism.

[AzRebel]

"Their bond rests on the idea that Western governments are irreparably corrupt."

"most are too cynical to see any redemptive purpose in party politics or incrementalism."

In one of the last stimulus packages a large sum of money was given to the lobbying firm that lobbies in DC for the lobbying firms in DC.

Do you understand what I'm saying???? DC lobbying firms have their own lobby.

The reason they said they deserved the money was because without their clients, CONGRESS WOULD BE UNABLE TO WRITE AND PASS LEGISLATION.

Silly me. I thought that was the job we sent our reps to do.

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, that is a level of corruption that cannot be walked back without drastic, drastic, and I'm afraid unthinkable action.

[soleri]

AzRebel, et al:

Sophists can see a problem and decide that it's proof of someone else's evil. But every time you self-congratulated for being a cynic and wise guy, you also helped pave that road that led directly to Trump. In 2016, you decided a completely sane and capable public servant was "corrupt" because, well, cankles or something. Our elections being binary, you opted out of a sane choice for no choice at all. In my humble opinion, you and millions of citizens like you are the reason we're on the cusp of forfeiting our democratic republic. You didn't take responsibility then and it seems likely you'll find yet another way to pretend nothing is ever your fault.

[AzRebel]

We all are at fault, but more so those of us who can't see the real world due to the party blinders they wear. You, soleri are the the most blind of all.

[Mark in Scottsdale]

I quite liked your column, Jon. I am personally pro-police and anti-police brutality. It is hard for a large department to be strong without adequate standards and Internal Affairs oversight. In any line of work, if you don't retrain or release bad employees, it harms both your clients and the health of your business. The police's job is already so very hard, and the bad apples end up making it so much harder for all of them.

[Cal Lash]

Hmmm
1861 never left.
Trump is living proof
Dracula lives on.
More manana

[Mike Doughty]

, to redeem the check written in the Declaration of Independence”
What a great reference to the Declaration of Independence I love all your posts and look forward to all of them. Liberal,libtard,and any other nasty names you can call me.

[ὀστρακισμός]

Soleri is the optimal personification of the typical "intellectual leftist elite". He sees the world not as it is, but as he desires it to be. If you don't share in his delusion, your a sophist, a infidel. Such a devotee to the cult that even Jon6969 can't pierce the veil of leftist dogma.

Soleri has knowledge, less wisdom, and no practical judgement.

In his mind he could join one of these "protests" and be the prototypical white savior. In reality his fellow Democrat Party members mob and surround him pummeling him into submission - he meekly whispers "I'm an ally", as he falls to the ground. The mob retorts "you're part of the problem". But that's okay - Soleri will take solace knowing that he rejected his 2nd amendment right - in his religion, its more virtuous to signal your faux-virtue than it is to protect yourself and your family - not only that, but he's privileged of course, so he deserved it.

And the right being responsible for the death of America - no, that's on you and your inability to operate in reality. You're weak. The strong elements of your party are taking over - watch it live BROTHER. Ironically, when mobs of your political persuasion do take power history shows that the first action they take is to send the elites to the gulags or the co-ops - maybe you'll be lucky enough to get a choice. What would you choose, Soleri?

We are watching the Democrat political platform play out live on television #VoteDemocrat 2020.

[Bill Pearson]

What a pile of crap you spew ὀστρακισμός. Talk about an elitist, you embody it. Superior to everyone, and without a clue as to the danger, distrust and disgust trump has reigned down on this country. The majority clearly resent him and what he represents.

We've never had a less qualified human being in the White House than this WWE wanna be. His claim to fame was buying beautiful women with dear old dad's money. After that, he's been pretty much an abject failure.

But wait, i am being unkind. He is a genius at branding and marketing. Carnival barkers are always able to con the rubes, at least the ones who are foolish enough to buy the hype. Sound like you know what you are talking about and the fools flock to him.

Being honest, i've never liked trump. Rather than take my biased opinion, let me share with you one of the finest columns i have read regarding trump. It is simply brilliant.

Sarah Longwell is the publisher of The Bulwark. Long time republican and a never-trumper. She doesn't write often but this piece from yesterday nailed it as well or better than anything i have read regarding the reasons trump is unfit for duty.

Enjoy: https://thebulwark.com/what-did-they-think-would-happen/

[ὀστρακισμός]

Hey look! Another delusional octogenarian of the communist cult.

Is a no-name junior senator from Chicago with previous community activism experience more qualified?

Send me another article because of your inability to articulate your own coherent ideas. I'd love to read more articles from people you outsource your intellect to! Thanks!

Leftist NPCs stuck on loops repeating MSM talking points. Here's an idea - leftists promoting these "protests" (riots) are doing immense damage to the black community. Let the whole world watch on primetime television mobs of black folks looting stores - I'm sure that's going to help the cause.

Your and your CCP members are walking the black community off a god-damned cliff.

[soleri]

Pepe Le Greek dives deep into the pantry of right-wing food stuffs to conjure this alt-right breakfast: snowflakes, elitists, virtue-signaling, leftist dogma, etc, all for the mind-altering horror of fellating Donald Trump. Indeed, it almost sounds like Jon6969(!) might be a playmate in his dubious fantasy life.

I'm not a leftist. Ideologically, I'm really nobody, that is, a pragmatist. I don't twist myself into rhetorical knots trying to solve the world's problems because, like conservatives of yore, I get that there's no way to sum up in words and "principles" the one and only correct path forward. I am, however, against those who disguise their racial panic with Greek letters and self-pleasuring projections of their inner lives.

I am, moreover, deeply disgusted by the far left, from Glenn Greenwald and Caitlyn Johnstone to the legions of idealistic birdbrains who spray paint monuments and burn down businesses, churches, and restaurants. That was the point of my original comment. It doesn't take much of a thinker to realize that Pepe's alt-right nightmare is not in opposition to them but to people with more modest ideals when it comes to a functional and sane society.

There's a deeply disturbing ugliness on the right that is not only analogous to the left's nihilism but very nearly complementary to it. The bloodthirsty rhetoric and smash-face political posturing are creepy when the radical right does it (see: militia types shutting down state governments) and equally nauseating when Antifa with help from the Boogaloo Bois weaponize spray paint and bricks. Epistemologically, both sides are in a deep thrall to conspiracy theories and false-flag operations. They are virtually mirror images of one another.

Pepe is not a patriot, good neighbor, or someone who can rescue the Republican Party from its own bad bargain with people like him. His party is in a death spiral because, as Lindsey Graham(6969!) stated a few years ago, "God isn't making more angry old white guys." I will celebrate their rendezvous with oblivion. We beat their asses 155 years ago, and again in 1945. The idea that a tribe of semi-literate yahoos is the master race is almost worth the twisted smile on my face as I type these words.

[Stephanie Oliver]

Jon: Once again you retreat to your strong suit, Nattering on as a historian with no clear focus vis a vis Arizona now, except a minor mention of Ducey’s inadequate leadership and bridge building with local political and enforcement folk. I expected more.

[Cal Lash]

Jon, I am OK with your column.
(But it is "being" shot.)
The comments are a RIOT.
Lots of big words to look up.
And whats with all the sex talk?

Later.
I am busy watching the Bird and rabbits hanging out in the water hole by my tin can.
Waiting for Trump to declare Martial Law and cancel my hooker reservation at Mara A Lago.

[Bill Pearson]

Communist cult indeed ὀστρακισμός. The ultimate fallback of those on the right. Cling to your AR's and AK's and paint everyone else with a Marxist brush. So pathetic.

Soleri is right, the percentages of far left and far right are marginal at best. The vast majority of us fall in the middle. We don't want rebellion or to overthrow the government. We aren't interested in reliving the civil war.

That's why Jon's column was spot on. There's blame on both sides as this plays out. The difference is i am less concerned about who is at fault and more concerned about how we move forward.

The ugly reality is with trump as president, we can't. He is incapable of leading. He is woefully inadequate at working with people. His greatest strength (if you can call it that) is being divisive. His worshipers drool over his lies while most of us crave a more normal and sane way existence.

Sarah's article is brilliant. It reduces trump down to exactly who and what he is. Best of all, it's written by a true conservative. Unlike trump who became a republican because he knew there were more suckers who would swallow his bullshit and smile and chant as they did it.

You can always tell a great column Jon when you bring out the best and the worst in your readers. Kudos and job well done.

[Cal Lash]

Good post Bill.
Thank you for using your real name.

[DoggieCombover]

Read George Will's op ed (link above) for another articulate conservative view, as opposed to what's his g(r)eeks pompous pontificating where he struggles to construct a coherent sentence, much less a compelling argument.

[hmls]

Pepe Le Greek! That's hilarious! Little Putin comes to mind. A healthy 30 year old reactionary riding a horse shirtless through north Scottsdale and Sun City super-spreading the virus and far right ideology. Little Putin is more aggressive these days. Trump tanking in the polls must be stressing him out.

[Cal Lash]

Actually i thought Pepe Le Moko was a good film. I watched it twice.

[Roger Simpson]

It is refreshing to see a topic that woke up the Commentators it has been too quiet for far too long.
We must never forget that the Orange one is, first and foremost a charlatan. Watch my left hand so you don't see what my right one is doing. He is a wannabe mob boss who demands the kissing of his ring.
I will stand by my comments on the previous blog regarding no election. I do not agree that either he or his Minions re not capable of such a plan. The surest way to lose a fight is to underestimate your opponent.
I will, in deference to my pal Cal. Post this under my real name rather than my nom de guerre : Ramjet

[ὀστρακισμός aka PepeLeGreek]

I quite like Pepe Le Greek! It has regal tone and harkens back to antiquity - a time where the archetypical cultural story was excellence (arete) rather than meekness, weakness, and victimhood - the trinity of the leftist movement.

As for the Pseudonym, Conservatives don't typically doxx or cancel leftists. On the contrary, leftists habitually attempt to cancel anyone who doesn't succumb to their madness (I can't succumb, I went to Uni, I therefore have the required antibodies). Also, let's be real, the most I could do is get you kicked out of your nursing homes whereas I'm about 5 decades younger than the average age here - got a life to live.

What do you leftists say? "I need to live my best life." I think that's it.

As for the left-center-right spectrum. Let's be real, Soleri is an eloquent metal patient. He still believes the dossier, Russian meddling and trump #isn'tHisPresident. Clearly he is. At least Bill accepts this fact.

And Bill I'm glad that a leftist can educate me on what a "real" conservative is. Please, spend some time educating me on all the quirks and features.

Unless you rioters get me - I'm living longer than all of you. Conservativism IS the new counter-culture.

In new news -
-Leftists are destroying their own cities
-More folks are becoming gun owners
-Trump isn't the facist you lot have been screaming about for the last 3 year - though I'm going to be honest, the polls do indicate the majority of America favors a military response.

I could go on, but it's all leading to the same conclusion. This situation is analogous to the $3 Trillion Phase 54 stimulus bill Nancy and the house tried to pass. Rebel noted it had a nice hand out for the lobbyists who lobby for lobbyists. Quaint.

These are the death rattles of a political party dying.

Take a seat. Grab a drink. Enjoy the show.

[soleri]

Note to the Superior Being commenting here: it's spelled "fascist", which is not merely your aspiration but what you confuse with "conservatism". The key difference is that those who side with tradition and custom, say a George Will or David French, know what animates a love of education and it isn't bragging about how smart you are. Rather, it's humility. Just because you think yourself better than others is proof that you're a pathetic wannabe using a few arcane references to burnish your CV.

Let's review: you idolize a man who wears make-up and whose comb-over is so astonishingly bizarre that it's a global joke. He's someone so grotesquely ignorant that he didn't know why Pearl Harbor was famous, or in which century Frederick Douglass lived. He is someone so immature that he uses his bully pulpit to insult people who are bit players in the national drama. He lies so extravagantly that it's news when he actually says something truthful. He is so widely loathed that he has never cracked 50% in polls, a first in the modern era. His inability to understand the limits of his own knowledge led him to minimize an epidemic for two months, which led to over 100,000 Americans dying and an economic depression.

It only gets worse. Like a demented thug, he tried to extort a political favor from a foreign nation, leading to his impeachment. His administration is a clown-car show of incompetent lickspittles who dare not tell their man-child emperor bad news lest he have one of his meltdowns and blame them for his own lack of leadership and judgment. You don't support someone like this unless you yourself are largely outside the purview of reason and sobriety. At this late date, there is no excuse for Trump except making weird sounds that might be "Gorsuch" or "judges" but betray no grasp of the national crisis that white nationalism and a toxic personality cult has inflicted on our nation.

You're going to lose badly and spend the rest of your life knowing your one man-crush is the absolute worst president this nation has ever seen. Unfortunately, your side doesn't read history unless Victor David Hanson wrote it, which means the radical right has no real scholars to take seriously. There's no amplitude to your knowledge, just a la-di-da certitude that you must be smart since your sad life is all about pretending to be "educated." The sorry truth is that you have no depth or character, which is why you waste our time trying to impress people you don't know. So embarrassing and yet so poetically just.

[B. Franklin]

Game. Set. Match.

Although I do enjoy the idea that the little ostracized Greek boy (and we all know how boys were thought of and treated in ancient Greece) thinks he's going to outlive us all...

[Bill Pearson]

Ouch soleri...that is one vicious kick to the nuts brother. Kudos.

Thanks DC for the point on the Will column. Pretty darn good. But then it's almost too easy when the pickings are so plentiful.

[Jerry McKenzie]

Good article RC! We live in a violent society that is reflected in our police, our government (19 years warring in Afghanistan!), tv, songs, and super hero movies. Even made it to the end of the comments. Cal, please don’t be using that tin can as a bathroom.

[Cal Lash]

Before I was retired cop I was twice a member of what you all call swat. Once as an officer and once as a supervisor.
This is a good read
https://theconversation.com/militarization-has-fostered-a-policing-culture-that-sets-up-protesters-as-the-enemy-139727

Jerry as Ed Abbey said and I try and follow
"if a man cant piss in his his front yard, he is living to close to town."

[Cal Lash]

Per five thirty eight.
54.1 percent dissapove of Trump.

[Cal Lash]

So far i see no big numbers that support military presence under the control of attorney general Billy Barr. States and counties and cities are the best deciders of national guard personnel.
Trum should be prosecuted for mayhem after his circus show of bible thumping. He doesn't know the front from the back. And likely would be confused by the language therein. What a sad sack of a joke.

[Cal Lash]

I'll try and post it tomorrow but there's the weirdest photo posted by the Washington Post fashion editor of Trump, Barr, O'Brien and the press secretary.

[ὀστρακισμός aka PepeLeGreek]

To all of you Branch Covidians who have suddenly renounced your oath to "social-distancing" and substituted it for a much more gratifying and profitable enterprise - looting and race baiting (5 day televised funeral) - prepare for your world-view to be shattered once again. Sorry to do this to you for a full 4 years (soon to be 8).

"The sorry truth is that you have no depth or character, which is why you waste our time trying to impress people you don't know."

:D - I found this blog and (initially) have great appreciation for the historic AZ posts as they are informative and quite well put together. I stayed when I realized that this is where all the leftist ideologues (mental patients) hang out, place their canes on the table, and sip prune juice. You interpret my comments and my being similar to how you interpret reality - incorrectly.

I came for the historic Phoenix posts - I stayed to watch and laugh at the leftist circle-jerk. What a fantastic circle-jerk it is - "LuL high-five Soleri - that will show him!". Amazing.

I have learned a lot here though - so I thank you all for that. Genuinely. First, I interpreted your views as a mental illness. This could be true, but it's also possible that declaring your convictions to be cultish would be more appropriate to the given circumstances - though I suppose overall these mental states/ideas are not mutually exclusive.

You are so willingly blind, ignorant that no facts will allow you entertain a counterpoint. You put all of your faith in Mueller "In Mueller we Trust". Your Prophet fell. You still believe. Your ignorance would be admirable if ignorance were virtue.

And finally, you pointed out 100k folks have passed due to Covid, but you neglect to note the correlation between death rates and nursing homes and the Dem Govs. that implemented these orders. Allow me to be the catalyst for you to cure your ignorance. Look these figures up - since you are all in the high-risk category, these orders would be a direct threat to your health.

Allow me educate you on how the majority of America views the Democrat party in 2020.

Vote Democrat 2020 - "We'll loot you in the streets and kill you in the sheets."

For the Free-range Octogenarian - Since you like posting links. Here's one to match your 538 -

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

[soleri]

Morning Consult poll has Biden up by 12 over Trump (51-39). Reuters' has the margin at 10.

In a Reuters' poll taken the past two days, 64% of Americans express sympathy to protesters while just 27% express disapproval.

538.com has Trump's disapproval numbers 11 points higher than his approval. Reminder to trolls: this is 2020, not 2016. The only way Putin's best friend can win is by suppressing the vote with emergency declarations and false-flag operations. He is so manifestly unpopular that he's struggling to stay ahead in states like Utah and South Carolina.

Anything can happen but Trump is a known quantity now among America's voting birdbrains. They took a walk on the wild side in 2016 when they got bored with peace and prosperity. Now, that world lies in ruins. White supremacy makes a great breakfast but a lousy supper.

[DoggieCombover]

Trolls will be trolls...think I found a video of Pepe though: https://youtu.be/zYopylSYyCQ

[Ruben]

Why is it that a person who has a different opinion than you makes them a troll?

[ὀστρακισμός aka PepeLeGreek]

Russia, Russia, Russia.

Russia, Russia, Russia.

Russia, Russia, Russia.

Follow Soleri's chants - descend with him, experience his madness.

Russia, Russia, Russia.

Russia, Russia, Russia.

Russia, Russia, Russia.

[DoggieCombover]

It doesn't. But name-calling, bragging, arrogance and hurling personal insults does. Just like his hero...

[Rogue Columnist]

Pepe, Rogue is known for the intelligence, value, and civility of its comments. Try to keep up or move on.

[Bill Youngman]

Thoughtful words as always. You seem to be comparing Trump to Nixon, but he may well be more in LBJ’s role.

[Cal Lash]

Yep i shouldn't have posted that 538 poll as i don't have much faith in polls to begin with. Possibly the 2016 five thirty eight poll was impacted by the three million "illegal" votes Clinton received? From the get go i never believed the Mueller investigation was going to result in any changes. Ray McGovern has written interestingly on the subject.
As you know i am not in favor of throwing people off of blogs. I think its important to know where prople are. However i think posters should be required to use thei real names.
That said, i firmly believe Donald Trump is a sad sad thing?

[soleri]

Here's a nightmare scenario by which Trump loses the election but refuses to leave (with able assistance from Vichy Republicans): https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/3/21257133/trump-2020-election-meltdown-lawrence-douglas

I think we all know that Trump is our republic's angel of death. There is simply no substitute for people of sound and good character keeping the system free of double dealing and cynical charades like the Benghazi hearings (or the upcoming Hunter Biden show trial). Can there be any doubt whatsoever that Republicans are now the enemies of democratic self-rule?

Vote as if your life depends on it because the radical right would sooner destroy America than accept an outcome unfavorable to their own interests.

[toughteri]

Pepe, do you also go by the moniker, Taki?

[ὀστρακισμός aka PepeLeGreek]

Rogue - well-noted. I see where you're going here and I'll fall in line.

Team DSA!

-Orange man bad!
-Russia influenced our elections!
-She was the most qualified candidate ever!
-She was the worst candidate ever!
-He's a fascist!
-This is the end of the Republic (for which it stands. One nation under God. Amen)
-He's crazy! The 25th Amendment!
-His doctor is lying! He's not healthy!
-He's a Nazi!
-He's so stupid!
-He's such a mastermind! He colluded with Russia and 2 years of investigation by a biased special counsel couldn't find anything except facebook posts! Damn he's too savvy! Too clever! Too smart to be caught!
-He's not a billionaire! (this one always confused me)

There's more - but I want to watch the protesters.

Soleri - if by destroying America you mean devolving more power to the States (X Amendment) and returning to a literal interpretation of the constitution. Yes - we want to destroy the republic - by actually adhering to its founding documents. Maybe that will make everyone less crazed over national elections.

Cal - I like you. My favorite free-range octogenarian. I say that genuinely. Let's be real though. I use my real name and someone here will try to cancel/DOXX me. The risk/reward calculation is not in my favor.

Toughteri - No, but I do like the song, TakiTaki.

[toughteri]

I like Cal also; and for your added entertainment, ck out TakiMag.com You will love him and his roster or commentators. FYI Cal, both you and Taki are both old coots - however, one of your is a rich playboy and you can fill in the rest.

[soleri]

Pepe apparently hasn't seen or disregarded Trump's utterly unprecedented move to usurp states' rights by militarizing the response to civil unrest. If you live in a dream world where Trump is a strict Constitutionalist and small-c conservative, that's probably inevitable. Trump is even more ignorant of the Constitution than a run-of-the-mill extremist like Pepe. He has no coherent policy agenda aside from enriching the rich, and taking credit for things he had no role in creating, like an economic recovery guided by adults without the insane drama and self-pity of an orange man-child. Now James Mattis has weighed in and makes it clear that Trump's leadership is not only wretched but dividing America to an inflection point it might not survive. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/06/03/jim-mattis-blasts-trump-message-that-defends-protesters-says-president-tries-divide-us/

Trump isn't the president of US, just "us", i.e., dumb white trash America. Pepe idolizes this racist creep because affinity-signalling is Trump's only real political skill. If it's civil war the right wants, they will do what comes naturally from a tribe of brazen traitors dating back to 1860. They will divide and weaken America by playing race and religion cards, thus stoking fires that destroy cities not to mention social trust.

There's only one America and it comes in various colors, religions, and persuasions. If you're as horrifying as Pepe, you'll celebrate Trump's attacks on the very essence of our freedom. Sadly, we are now on the cusp of extraordinary unrest in this country, from militia yahoos on the right to left-wing nihilists like Antifa. If your sense of patriotism is so vacuous that you no longer care what is happening before your very eyes, it might be time to stop pontificating online and simply start shooting. Good idea, Pepe, not telling us who you really are because I suspect you'd be a person of extreme interest to law enforcement.

[Rogue Columnist]

Pepe,

To Soleri's eloquent words, I'll add this:

If you want to be a real Jefferson Republican (different party, same name in its era), this would require virtually eliminating the standing military, federal taxes, the real size of the federal gub'ment (which grew under Reagan and all post-Reagan GOP presidents).

It would require being honest and law-abiding. Jefferson never tried to grift off his office. Oh, he was one of the four or so genuine intellectuals to occupy the presidency. Trump doesn't read.

Then, in this fantasy world, states could raise taxes on their own, etc., according to the will of the people. And none of this "we support local control as long as we're in control" scam of modern Republicans. No interference by federal courts, whose roles hadn't been decided in Jefferson's day.

The problems with Jeffersonian Republicanism didn't have to wait until the Civil War or the Great Depression, much less the complex, 330-million-strong nation of today. They were displayed by a weakened Navy struggling against the Barbary pirates, then when we were largely defeated in the War of 1812.

[Ruben]

How to turn Arizona blue:

1. Have Kelli "I wish I had a brain" Ward round up ALL the leading republicans in the state and pile them into the Crudnals arena.

2.Next fill in as many AZ republicans as you can into the arena while leaving room for the national republicans that would attend their convention.

3. Declare masks and social distancing weak and unmanly.

4. Stir and cook for several days.

Let mother-covid nature take it's course.

[Jon7190]

Rogue makes some good points and his affinity for nuance isn't seen enough in our public discourse.

I have a few thoughts on the topic. It is interesting that all this strife is over an event that is basically not controversial. Probably 90%+ of people would agree that George Floyd suffered an abuse of power and injustice at the hands of police. Every relevant public official has acknowledged that and Minneapolis moved at lightning speed to fire all the officers within 24 hours and file murder charges on one within a few days with more charges possible. Practically nobody thinks it's inappropriate to have peaceful demonstrations. But yet the country is being ripped apart.

I don't think it's overstating it to say that a large portion of the violence is being perpetrated by domestic enemies of our country, the type that all public officials swear in their oath of office to defend the constitution against. I don't say enemies as an insult, but in a technical sense as their express goal is to overthrow our constitutional republic. It's public record that this is Antifa's goal, and shared by other like-minded groups. That an aspect of this violence is organized and coordinated by those who wish to undermine our social order is undeniable. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of ordinary opportunistic thugs looting and pillaging because that's always fun and profitable for certain types of criminals and yes Solari, doubtless there are some radical right wingers getting in on the mayhem too. However, Antifa and other similar groups are major drivers and it is shameful that so many local and state officials have been hesitant to act with force against them.

The Democratic party plays footsie with Antifa and these types at their peril. Some have called them the militant arm of the party, which is probably exaggerating, but still there certainly has been an enemy of my enemy is my friend calculus at play. You would have to search hard to find a Democratic official who will call them out by name and uncategorically denounce them, much less come down on them with the full force of the law. Not all of the violence could have been stopped, of course, but some of it could and some of the people who have lost their lives or their property can rightly ask their timid governors, mayors and police chiefs why.

The debate here between the Greek (easier than copying and pasting his name) and Soleri has been exciting but not terribly illuminating. The Greek made some points I agree with, being the general Rightie that I am, but I think he is borderline trolling and definitely violating the civil environment this blog aspires to. Soleri is the king of prose and knows his way around a biting slam, but he spends most of his comments talking about how terrible Trump is seemingly out of habit, even though the president is only tangentially involved with this.

I will admit I would like our President to be more involved in being a positive healer. This sort of domestic unrest is probably where he is at his weakest, as far as his personality and ability to rise to the heights of unification that would be ideal for a president to do at a time like this. I would be the last person to claim Trump is perfect. So, take the win, Soleri, I'm criticizing him.

But I have to add it's not all bad. The news of course plays up the unhelpful tweets, but to those paying attention he has said the things a president should as far as supporting justice for Floyd and peaceful protests and denouncing violence. The address Monday was pretty good, I thought (transcript at: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-by-the-president-39/) and I don't personally think his march down the block to the church which was burned was inappropriate. Violent attacks on houses of worship are among the most despicable things criminals can do to express hate against our society and other citizens, especially one as historic as that church. Declaring Antifa a terrorist group was the right thing to do, IMO (https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/05/31/as-america-burns-trump-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group-n472221 )

Another good thing about the violence: what ever happened to that virus everyone was so worried about!?

Am I Jon6969? If so, I guess it's an insult but I can't put my finger on exactly what it means...

[soleri]

Jon7190, at the outset, I need to get a whopper of yours out of the way: no one is saying the Democratic Party is playing footsie with Antifa (aside from the right's disinformation machinery). Why would any organized political party canoodle with anarchists? Those bozos certainly don't vote or bargain. They hate politics, which is why they want to burn down the house of democracy. They're complete assholes. Now, if I stated that Republicans play footsie with people like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and organized militia groups, I would be closer to the truth because those clowns do vote and it's certainly not for Democrats. That said, it would an be act of bad faith on my part to suggest Republicans are responsible for them. I appreciate you for keeping it civil unlike Pepe but you need to align your arguments with basic reality.

Along those lines, the elephant in the room here is the idea that Trump is anything other than the most manifestly unfit person ever to serve as president. On some level, you know this. He had absolutely no qualifications for high office. None whatsoever. Beyond being able to hoodwink sad sacks with idiotic bromides like "making America great again", Trump has weakened our unity, i.e., national security, beyond Vladimir Putin's wildest dreams. It is an open question whether America can even recover from his assaults on truth and law. Worse, he has divided America into two warring camps. His reelection would likely be the final nail in our coffin as a free nation. Props to James Mattis for spelling out the obvious but we've known all this from the beginning of his unhappy reign.

Trump's only saving grace is his incompetence since we don't need to worry about him successfully staging a coup. On the other hand, that Trump himself openly speculates about being president for life is deeply troubling. Trump is not a patriot in any sense of the word. He's a vile demagogue and an affront to every noble ideal this country has ever stood for. You cannot defend Trump on any level beyond the kind of inane Whataboutisms that afflict so many in right-wing media. Unlike you, Trump doesn't read seriously (or at all). He's uncouth, ignorant, manic, and deeply neurotic. He is, if not clinically insane, uncomfortably close to that edge.

Calling Trump's tweets "unhelpful" is hilariously understated but what are the media supposed to do? Ignore them? Is Trump so delicate that we should simply pretend his verbal diarrhea is the fault of those who take him literally? You can't simply filet Trump like you would a Dover sole. He's a package deal, which means his grotesque personality matters as much as his attacks on the integrity of the civil service and the rule of law.

Curiously, you defend Trump's blatant demagoguery on Monday in which peaceful protesters were physically assaulted so Trump could pretend he cares about Christianity. Who would Jesus gas? The priests and ministers were appalled but not you since "winning" appears to be the only metric by which you judge that cretin's actions. Even the ancient dotard Pat Robertson was upset.

Partisan politics makes all of us tetchy and uncomfortable. This is why we need two sane political parties that can reach across the aisle and protect the fundamentals of our system. Today, we have only one, the Democrats. The Republican Party has completely capitulated to Trump's improvisational madness. If you're not willing to defend America from a man-baby's tantrums, why should we assume you have anything of worth to share with the rest of us? First tell the truth, which then enables you to take responsibility. If the Republican Party doesn't stand up to this bloated mad king, it will sacrifice not only its own integrity but the lifeblood of our republic.

[ὀστρακισμός aka PepeLeGreek]

@Jon - the 6969 was in jest. Meant only as an antithetical to your actions here on the blog. You are a saint among men. The type of gentleman who calls PHX C.A.R.E.S. repeatedly and often on our addict neighbors - praying that they seek help though they never do.

In a similar fashion you try to communicate genuinely, in good faith with cult members. Theirs is a religion - one that doesn't seek truth, but survives and thrives in ignorance.

Is there any one fact that could shake them from their ignorance? No, because facts don't matter.

The key component of the leftist fantasy is deliberate obfuscation of truth. Let's point out some beliefs still held with fanatical religious zeal.

July 19, 2018 - The permanent crisis
"What does Putin have on Trump — because the Helsinki disaster resembled what spys call the handler and the asset?"
- Do they still believe this?

December 21, 2018 - The desperate hours (with a fantastic photo - captioned "Genus Spideris Muellericus wraps ints struggling prey in sticky web strands before delivering its fatal venomous sting!")
"With the Mueller investigation closing in, co-conspirators flipping, the New York Attorney General, and U.S. Attorney from the Southern District in New York — all these probes tightening the web on the Don and his family... He's capable of anything."
-Do they still believe this?

We could go on, but why waste time. Why call PHX C.A.R.E.S. on the same folks 100's of times.

What matters to the left is eloquent ignorance.

@toughteri - Thanks! That is a great site. Much appreciated.

And before Rogue chastises me for not adhering to the narrative of this blog (and thereby raising the average readers heartrate to a age specific danger level of 85 BPM).

-Orange man bad
-Russia collusion
-End of Republic
-Stay home flatten the curve
-yadda yadda

[Bill Pearson]

The irony of dealing with trumists is they use the same techniques as he does. Let me highlight the perfect example, though there are several more.

Pepe said this: "In a similar fashion you try to communicate genuinely, in good faith with cult members. Theirs is a religion - one that doesn't seek truth, but survives and thrives in ignorance.Is there any one fact that could shake them from their ignorance? No, because facts don't matter.
The key component of the leftist fantasy is deliberate obfuscation of truth. Let's point out some beliefs still held with fanatical religious zeal."

I've elected to combine it into one rambling paragraph, because in fact that is all it is...a rambling diatribe that perfectly describes the donald. Worse yet his hardy band of Kool-Aid drinkers are a single and narrow minded collective as you could find.

Every time trump is cornered, he makes the same play. Accuse whomever is talking about him of the same sins, only far worse. But then why not? He is the "worlds greatest counter puncher."

It's just too bad along the way he didn't pick up those other skills necessary to be worthy of the title President of the United States. He is easily the most unqualified human being to ever hold the office.

PS: All the crap you keep whining about us leftists are clinging to is utter nonsense. It's all yesterdays news and all that matters is this coming November. Simple as that.

[B. Franklin]

One day a little boy was scared by a nasty liberal.

Maybe the nasty liberal asked him to share something. Food or a toy, who knows? But they were his! And he shouldn't have to share what was his!

Or maybe the nasty liberal stopped him from torturing an animal. But that animal was his! And he should be able to do whatever he wanted with it.

Perhaps he was mocking a handicapped kid, or molesting a little girl, or tossing racial slurs at the black and brown children. Honestly, the possibilities are endless.

Whatever caused it, the nasty liberal scared him. And scarred him, too.

Fortunately, he was saved by a kind old man who sat him on his lap and read to him from a wonderful book by a wise and wonderful woman named Ayn Rand.

Suddenly it all made sense! His selfishness was a virtue! It made him a superior person. It was all the others, the ones who looked different from him, the ones who stopped him from doing everything he wanted to do, the ones who wanted him to share, that were wrong.

He was the smartest! Though the others couldn't see it. He was always in the right! Ayn Rand was a genius!

He was the true Ubermensch!

Sadly, Ayn Rand was long dead and there would be no more of her wonderful guide books to help him in life.

He needed something, someone to lead him, to mold him.

What he needed was someone to worship...

Someone with the same moral compass. Someone who was obviously also an Ubermensch. Someone who played by his own rules, and the "little" peoples' laws and ethics be damned!

And behold the Orange Pig God appeareth!

The little boy, now somewhat grown, though not fully developed as a human, was happy at last.

He and the Pig would show them!

Finally they would have to recognize, indeed bow down, to his genius.

[Cal Lash]

There's an election?

[Cal Lash]

Can you vote your way out of tyranny?

[DoggieCombover]

I've learned not to even try to have a rational discussion with his ilk, which is why I post his video, see above, sometimes you just have to meet someone at their level...it would presume a rational framework for such, give it up, pals. And shanghai every millennial and kid you know to put down their fucking "device" and vote

[Cal Lash]

Chido!

[Jon7190]

B. Franklin, nice tale. Is it based on a true story?

[Jon7190]

Soleri, I read a succinct and IMO on-target statement by the Claremont Institute issued yesterday about the current crisis that said, in part, "As we see written in flames in these riots and hear in all the commentary on them, the great divide in America is between those who believe that America is evil and needs to be destroyed, and those who believe that America is good and needs to be preserved." We've talked a lot on this blog about the polarization and increasing difficulty in politics, and this sums that trend up nicely. No one represents the end point of this destructive passion better than Antifa (and any other non-centralized, violent Leftist movements).

One reason I can't see the Democratic party as an alternative (per our last thread), or even a sane party as you say we need two of, is their ever-expanding embrace of destructive ideas in our society, e.g. socialism (communism-lite), unrestricted and unlimited immigration, the rejection of biological science, cancel culture, identity politics, and this just in: "Defund Police!" Part of that pattern is the rise of violent hard-left groups, which while not an official part of the Dem party, are certainly treated with kid gloves by the politicians and the media as a useful movement to bash people the left hates and do the things respectable leftists can't (but many wish they could!).

As I mentioned in my first comment, evidence that Democrats play footsie with Antifa is their reluctance to denounce them. Try playing this game: search for Democratic politicians who have specifically condemned Antifa. I came up with Nancy Pelosi in 2017 mildly denouncing them (and she caught hell from the Left). Here's an entertaining 2 minute video of most of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates being asked to denounce Antifa. The organization making the video generously gave them credit if they wimped out and just denounced violence generally, but many weren't even willing to do that and only one (Gabbard) was willing to denounce them by name (https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1163229230655836160 ). I did find a Minneapolis city council member who specifically endorsed Antifa a few days ago (https://twitter.com/jeremiah4north/status/1267152043313172482 ). Most blue state officials in riot hotspots were slow to identify or condemn the violence in the protests early on. Now they condemn the violence, but they won't admit it was organized by any specific left wing groups.

As a relatively sane Democrat, you may think Antifa are assholes, but perhaps that blinds you to seeing that plenty of mostly younger Democratic voters like them just fine. Alienating that element of their base is probably one reason Dems don't like to call out the thugs in their midst. Also, for the last few years, rampaging in the streets makes the president look bad, so why not have more of that? It's all good until they break your windows, as this funny viral video showed (https://trendingviews.co/video/protesters-break-residential-windows-even-though-we-re-on-your-side-12742.html).

I don't think your Republican equivalence holds up. You may be right there are many Republican politicians who aren't comfortable criticizing some of the more extreme gun-rights groups and militias. Those groups may be scary in principle, but they aren't out causing violence on the streets on a regular basis like Antifa. Specific extremists like Timothy McVeigh who do specific evil acts certainly get condemned by most every politician.

Claremont statement in full: https://americanmind.org/post/america-is-not-racist/
Trump isn't the elephant in the room here, it's this question underlying the protests of "is America racist?" Rogue didn't address it and surprisingly nobody here has touched on it.

[soleri]

Jon1790, since I am "relatively sane", let me repay your compliment with these pointed words: you are relatively patriotic. That is, you apparently subscribe to a fundamentally anti-American idea that law applies only to those who are outside your hearth and tribe, and one that exempts the president and his administration. It's why you countenance show trials (see: Benghazi) and politicized justice (see: William Barr). It's why you support a blatantly proto-fascist president who celebrates dictators and rejects our democratic allies. It's why you minimize the damage he does not only to our Constitutional republic but to our common touchstones of reality: language, knowledge, science, empiricism, and expertise.

Your all-white political party doesn't get to lecture the rest of us on racism when it won't even denounce cops killing unarmed black people (Blue Lives Matter!). Trumpism is racism. It's why the KKK and neo-Nazi groups openly embrace Trump as an ally and fellow traveler. It's why your party does everything possible to suppress minority voting. It's why your Supreme Court majority gutted the Voting Rights Act. It's why Republican state officials and Trump himself are pro-gerrymandering and antagonistic to vote-by-mail: you don't believe in universal suffrage, a core precept of our democracy. Republicans know all this but choose to dress up their racist ideals in the camouflage of color-blindness. The hypocrisy here is simply off the charts. Republican political success over the last 50 years is predicated on one overarching tactic: the Southern Strategy. I have yet to read one rejection of this obvious racism from any Republican, in or outside Claremont.

Antifa, a small but obnoxious group of thugs who don't vote and who reject the buffers of democracy, are not allies of the Democratic Party. Yes, there's some confusion here about their motives, which makes defenders of the rule of law squeamish when it comes to denouncing them. For you, however, it's a plus since your only reason for trolling this site is to posit absurdities, like the idea that Democrats are actually unwashed anarchists themselves because they won't capitulate to your McCarthyite tactics.

I've gotten much more conservative as I've grown older since experience tends to make us doubt more and believe less. Trump, of course, is not a conservative, which should be a problem to someone like you. How do you defend this unlettered blowhard and vulgarian? Well, you quibble about his tweets and sometimes his language, but then claim he's misunderstood, or that he means well, or that Hey! Look at all those tax cuts! We'll all be rich! Unless you're much dumber than I thought, you know this is a fraud. It's why every decent Republican intellectual has either left the party or has ruefully noted its moral collapse. You cannot call yourself a conservative of good conscience if you support Donald Trump. That's the predicate of your Faustian bargain and it will either destroy America or the party you shill for. Let's hope it's the latter because merely being the dominant power in a failed nation is a dog's breakfast.

[drifter]

Great comment soleri. Thank you.

[Jon7190]

I read this site and sometimes make comments because Rogue writes about ideas and has created an environment that attracts people who are interested in ideas. Rogue himself and most of the commenters are not only tolerant of ideas they don't agree with but are willing to engage them in a civil way. Ideological bubbles have their place, but it is much more interesting and fun when people don't all agree with each other and can engage different ideas. Though obviously predominantly liberal, over the several years I've frequented here, there has been a good variety of viewpoints heard. While I may not agree with Rogue much on national issues, I'm much more likely to agree with him on Arizona regional issues and the historical articles will always keep me coming back.

Though we tend to talk past each other quite a bit, Rogue and most of the people here can engage because I think we agree on some fundamentals, like the value of our country as a constitutional republic that respects individual rights, has a strong rule of law and is prosperous because of our capitalist, mostly-free market economy. We many disagree over practically every specific issue and how to preserve and improve the country, but I think we are all here because we are civic-minded and ultimately want the best for our country.

Soleri, with that said, it would be interesting to try to debate the laundry list of items you threw out, though probably take way more time and bandwidth than we have here. I'll just hit a few.

Benghazi hearings: Is it out of bounds to ask hard questions when an ambassador and other Americans are killed inside a U.S. diplomatic facility? Show trials (see impeachment) and politicized justice (see the entire Flynn fiasco). Barr: I'll freely criticize the president and many things he says but there is a list of things that would be reason enough by themselves to vote for reelection and one of those things is keeping Bill Barr as attorney general. I've been impressed by most everything I've seen him do or heard him say. Quite the opposite of your opinion, I see him as coming into a Justice Department that over the last few decades has gotten intolerably politicized and trying to get it back to real, impartial law enforcement.

Republican politicians will denounce cops killing unarmed black people when it is appropriate to do so, such as almost every politician has done in the Floyd case. Portraying cops killing unarmed black people as a major national problem is a tactic to play up racial division for political gain, but doesn't hold up under examination of the statistics. According to the Washington Post police shootings database (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ ), in 2019 out of 1004 fatal shootings (236 documented black) there were 10 fatal police shootings of unarmed black people. Even of those, most were not controversial. Six of the ten were suspects physically attacking officers. Two of the ten resulted in charges against the officers. A tiny handful of controversial cases out of at least 236 deaths and hundreds of thousands of arrests is tragic but not evidence of a widespread racial problem. Proclaiming it to be is pure demagoguery which you can hardly blame Republicans for not joining in on. By the way, 55 police officers were killed feloniously (as opposed to accidentally) in the line of duty in 2019. Also, for perspective, 7407 blacks were murdered by civilians.

Trumpism is racism: all of the headlines you listed are complicated issues that are highly debatable, but proclaimed as if they were simple and obvious evidence to support the slogan. Let me challenge you with this: can you list specific policies that the Trump administration has implemented (by executive order, regulation or signed law) that are racist? While we're at it, how about doing the same for fascist policies (or even proto-fascist)? I'd be much more interested in that.

OK, I hit more topics than I intended to. Hopefully this isn't too boring if anybody else is still reading.

P.S. I guess relatively sane was rather a back handed compliment. I'll accept being relatively patriotic.

[Cal Lash]

"The Fire Next time"
Sane? Sanity? Not yet a complete science. Still a subjective practicing art form.
Subjectively it seems to me that most American presidents were reasonably sane.
Donald Trump? I think met him back when I was a medic working private psychiatric and Arizona State Hospital Wards in the 60’s.

And now from behind the throne, Billy Barr brings the “Dogs of War” to America. Billy’s insanity is embodied in his cradle catholic mythological beliefs. I think belief's in mythical gods are the most dangerous forms of Insanity.

Patriotism, I have been troubled by that word since 58. It has boundaries. Can one be a British Patriot, A Russian patriot, A Iranian Patriot? At 80 I can say I am a Patriot of the planet Earth.

I am 79 in the west and 80 in the east.
Good blog Jon. Dictionary in hand I revel in the comments

[Cal Lash]

Re Barr and his manifest destiny "white"
god fearing folk.

"God is Red and Custer Died for Your Sins."
Vine Deloria

Per Greg Olear
https://gregolear.substack.com/p/on-race-and-atonement

[Cal Lash]

PERP WALK.
To be clear. The WALK to a church Bible stunt was clearly an intentional and deliberate felonious mayhem assault on peaceful American citizen's.
The results of this organized criminal act should result in prosecution of the perpetrators.

[Cal Lash]

It continues.
Post office seizes Corona 19 masks?
Scheduled to help fuel the next federal maryjane fire?
How about some books?

[Jon7190]

Cal, what about patriotism troubles you? The word or the concept? I'd be curious for you to flesh that out a bit.

[Cal Lash]

Jon7190, I am not intelligent enough to “Flesh” Patriotic out for you.

A definition: https://www.britannica.com/topic/patriotism-sociology
For a long time I have had a GUT feeling that the use of the word established walls.
I am not a fan of walls and my experience is that combinations of these things cause bloodletting.

By accident I was born in what is “currently” called the United States.
Given my DNA I could have been born in NE Europe, the British Isles or Sri Lanka.
I feel comfortable with caring for and loving the planet earth.

How do you flesh out Ammon Bundy’s dropping out of the Patriotic movement?
https://www.newsweek.com/ammon-bundy-crticizing-trump-immigrants-quits-militia-movement-1249835

[soleri]

Jon1790, I am not an ideologue and only a partisan to the extent that I support the one national party not enthralled by white nationalism and a toxic personality cult. Trump's history of racially inflammatory remarks goes back decades and suggest that's he not merely a racist but a vile demagogue who uses racially charged incidents to politically incite the Republican base. 30 years ago, it was the Central Park Five case, in which he demanded the death penalty for five POC falsely accused of brutally raping a female jogger. When they were cleared by DNA evidence, Trump refused to back off or apologize. As you may have seen, Trump is incapable of apologizing to anyone about anything. I guess since you revere this scumbag, it's safe to call this trait a "conservative value".

Trump launched his political career by charging President Obama was born in Kenya. There was absolutely no evidence for this but his audiences of right-wing racists loved the allegation. As with many on the right, conspiracy theories occupy a place where normally intelligence and discernment should go. It was only in 2015 after five years of this charade that Trump "cleared" Obama of his slander by falsely blaming Hillary Clinton for initiating it.

Since racism is a core feature of right-wing politics, Trump decided in 2017 to exploit racial division by personally attacking black NFL athletes for kneeling during the national anthem. He used racially charged language to imply bad faith for their protests and spoke frequently about his contempt for them at rallies before delirious wingnuts. He expanded his attacks in 2018 to include the NBA, picking fights with Stephen Curry and LeBron James.

Beginning in 2018, Trump began attacking blacks for having low IQs, like Maxine Waters. Also in 2018, he made his famous remark defending neo-Nazis and racists in Charlottesville as "fine people". That year, he also called African nations "shithole countries" during an impromptu immigration debate in the Oval Office.

I think even you by this point might begin to notice a pattern. He's a comprehensive exegesis of Trump's racism: https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

About Bill Barr, I don't have the patience to guide you though this despicable fixer's assault on the rule of law. You can use Google if you're really interested (which I find hard to imagine). Over 2500 ex-DOJ staffers have called on Barr to resign. If you only marinate your brain in the raw sewage of right-wing media, you may not have heard of any of this.

I need to be crystal clear with you since we've breached a topic that is close to a deal-breaker when it comes to amicably speaking of our differences. There is no such thing as "conservatism" in America. It's a lie. No one on the right cares about fiscal prudence (except when a Democrat is president). No one cares about keeping America "strong" since that would also mean standing up to adversaries like Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-il, along with the numerous dictators Trump idolizes. It would also mean maintaining alliances which are crucial for the stability of the world. Nor does anyone on the right care about "life", since if your party of hypocrites did, you wouldn't suggest to the elderly that their lives are of little consequence during a pandemic. Therefore, it's time to lift the lockdown and let the partying begin again.

The one animating impulse on the right has nothing to do with policies, "values", or governing philosophies. It has everything to do with racial resentment and cultural grievance. The sorry truth is that America's shambolic politics is traceable entirely to a cynical calculation on the part of the right to "divide and conquer" in order to reap the spoils. Mission Accomplished.

One final remark about Benghazi. What happened there was a tragedy that could not have been prevented if Hillary Clinton had superpowers. It's why after nine tedious investigations, your side uncovered nothing at all. But that was never the point. Your party of demagogues and hypocrites cruelly exploited the tragedy for one purpose alone: to politically damage Clinton. You are not a child. You don't need to pretend that any of this was anything other than your party's addiction of Total Political War. It's how even in the midst of a pandemic, basic public health measures have become politicized by assholes like Donald Trump and Rush Limbaugh. You don't believe in good government. You believe in the triumphalism of Dumb White Trash America.

[B. Franklin]

Is there time to trademark Dumb White Trash America(n)?

Cuz I'm 100% certain that the MAGAts would proudly wear a t-shirt with that on it. Irony not being their strong point.

And we could make a little $$$$, which is, after all, all that matters in Trump's America.

The best quote about patriotism that I know comes, of course, from Samuel Johnson: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

[Cal Lash]

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"
Oscar Wilde
I'll try and figure out where Oscar was going?

[Cal Lash]

As my fire turns to glowing coals

My Gmail signature has a reference
to my Dog Spot.

Around three I am learned to pronounce biblical words and some Dick and Jane went to fetch water stuff. I heard they picked blueberry’s up on the hill while out exploring. At nine I became a capitalist.
At 14 I was deep into Science Fiction, a stone cold atheist and addicted to puberty. At 21 I became a card carrying Republican. Between 18 and 22 I chose to be an Air Force Medic and not carry a gun. I was reading Rousseau, Thomas Malthus, Bertrand Russell, William Buckley and Ayn Rand among many other things particularly Isaac Asimov and Arthur Clarke. In 68 I needed a job that had BENEFITS. I chose to be a cop not a fireman. I have a badge that says, PatrolMAN. Now days its Patrol officer and fire fighter. And Professional Standards not Internal Affairs. What do Richard Gere and Andy Garcia think about that? I worked 19 assignments and became a Union leader. Despite being a lifetime Republican. Somewhere in there I got caught up with Albert Camus. I still like the way he smoked.
Now at almost 80 I am still a Republican, I still read a lot. Rogue columnist is my entertainment center as I bunker down in my tin can on the edge of the Great Sonoran Desert. What’s left of it? Spot died. Her ashes await to be mixed with mine and spread near some giant Sajuaros. You all keep scribbling, it’s the best chance we have of staying Sane.

[Cal Lash]

As i have been saying for years. See Sue Halperin's New Yorker article in Rogue Front pages.

[Cal Lash]

Good Seattle column Jon.
I think your theories are likely.
Given the planet population growth.
If the cruise industry died i wouldnt cry. And it would be ok if Vegas dried up too.

[Jon7190]

Cal, I get what you mean. The word patriotism is a double edged sword, used for lots of purposes from the worst rah-rah jingoism to honorable love of country that inspires self-sacrificial service. Useful for both scoundrels and heros.

You ever wish you went the fire route? They used to officially call us Pipe And Ladderman in my department (before my time), or pipeman for short. How's that for an antiquated title?

[Cal Lash]

The "marked" dead never had a chance with God's killers. Biblica killing requires no justification, just loyalty
Trump and his whores rule.
The skies here were on fire tonight.
Maybe an omen of the future.
Unlikely i will live long enough to hear dem horns blow.

[Cal Lash]

Jon7190. Thanks for asking
I qualified for the fire department but spending hours in a house with a bunch of guys didn't intrest me.
Being the Lone Ranger or Lash Larue seemed a more exciting possibility.
Among other things, as a cop i became known as a social worker with a badge.
It was a great career. Particularly for a guy with few skill levels and no formal education. Putting attorneys in prison for White collar crime was interesting.
Back in the day they assigned arm robbery investigations by race. Because i had worked well with minorities i was assigned to Armed Robberies committed by black suspects west of Central Avenue.
Never heard "Pipe and Laddermen." Is that an East coast thing?

[Jon7190]

Texas thing, I guess. I havent heard of it anywhere else, but I haven't really looked either.

I've thought aspects of police work look fun and interesting but never wanted a job where a good portion of the populace hates you (and a few want to kill you). Of course current events really don't make it look attractive! I've always respected anyone willing to put on the "patrol officer" badge and do the job well. In my experience a few cops are jerks but most are cool.

[Jon7190]

Soleri, nice debating with you. Till next time!

[Bill Pearson]

Hell of a thread boys and girls. Soleri; simply brilliant rebuttals. Cal, you are clearly a one of a kind.

I suspect Rogue is well unto his next piece but i would love to see us explore solutions to the protests in the streets. There are seldom easy answers, but there are always solutions that are better than others.

Given cal's background, he must have some insight. I hate the slogan; "De-fund the Police." I know there's more to it than that, but it sounds like a bad idea waiting to happen.

And what about that "thin blue line?" Are we at that point where brothers more interested in supporting brothers than they are in doing the right thing? The cops in Buffalo yesterday at the courthouse sure made it look that way.

[soleri]

Bill Pearson, thank you for your kind words.

I agree about the need to understand protesters and the necessary distinctions we must make between free speech and wanton destruction. I would hope Rogue tackles this as well. The right is already framing the argument that Antifa (literally: anti-fascist) is part of the resistance to Trump. This is wildly misleading. In fact, some of them might well be double agents aiding the anti-resistance by making the left look wild and extreme. We're already uncomfortably close to an ignition point in civil society. If it's a race war the right wants, what better way to start one than by "protecting" America against crazy radicals who loot and pillage. Trump, of course, will piggyback on their agitprop. It's breathtaking but it bears repeating: Trump's and the radical right's interests overlap to the point that they're nearly the same.

I agree, too, about slogans like De-Fund the Police. This is insane because order is the absolute predicate of any functional society. Anarchists live in a fantasy zone where the Promised Land miraculously appears once all impediments to free expression and material desires disappear. To be sure, we're overdue for a real debate about police culture and its ugly authoritarian aspects. That said, we're not going to wish basic human nature away. Law and order, justly and humanely applied, is a civil necessity in any real democracy.

The radical left and radical right are fundamentally different in their ideologies but disturbingly close in their demonologies. Both obey a strictly Us vs Them polemical style. I read some lefties like Caitlyn Johnstone or Glenn Greenwald and sense a kinship with authoritarians like Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, and Bill Barr. Victimologies of the right and left are grotesquely self-pitying and angry. That they're closely related can also be seen by who they hate: the center with its adherence to law, process, and necessary doubt.

[Cal Lash]

Here you go Bill
https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/watch-this-all-17-seconds-of-it-its-a-prophecy-from-2011-he-was-projecting/594261751362775/

[Cal Lash]

Minneapolis, Floyd was murdered.
Buffalo, After reviewing this several times i think this "old man" a professional protester ended up getting hurt as a result of his deliberate and intentional actions.
I thought the immediate reaction of the police after he fell was bad. It appeared one officer was going to tend to him but was stopped. I think this will not get prosecuted but settled civilly. It was not surprising to see the actions later when the officers were released.

Change comes slowly or maybe not at all:
https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199737840.001.0001/acprof-9780199737840-chapter-2

[Cal Lash]

Focus: Not on Chauvin the cop with multiple complaints or Floyd the convicted felon.

The NECK
be it Knee or Noose
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=qhlBlEMS&id=D39D9ADBE4F54AC875631A427E70658974992849&thid=OIF.frwuL0mDg6atVO6g7tWaQA&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fisraelpalestinenews.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2020%2f06%2fKnee.neck_.IsraeliPolice.3-597x410.jpeg&exph=410&expw=597&q=knee+on+floyd+neck&simid=76145496902&ck=7EBC2E2F498383A6AD54EEA0EED59A40&selectedIndex=13&ajaxhist=0

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/26/lynchings-memorial-us-south-montgomery-alabama

[Cal Lash]

The bigger question
A 2019 opinion from a moderate liberal site.
https://www.justsecurity.org/62231/2019-global-march-authoritarianism-turn-stampede-slog/
Current comments by Ambassadors and military folks
https://www.justsecurity.org/70608/the-strength-of-americas-apolitical-military/

[Cal Lash]

I think Jon's not writing a new novel but
"A Brief History of the (former) Planet, Earth."

[Cal Lash]

Billy Barr is in need of more confession time beads. He just now lied again about the Bible photo op. He and Donald better hope they can get one more of Leonard Leo's boys on the Supreme Court.

[Cal Lash]

See Rogue Front pages article on General Powell.Trump may be the biggest liar since Pinocchio and stupidly dangerous to the human race but his kill numbers are not even close to General Powells WMD death and destruction resulting lies.
I'm not impressed with Powell or George Bush's opposition to Trump. It strains credibility? Hopefully i will feel better after they vote. If there is an election?

[Bill Pearson]

Lot to digest there Cal. The lynching piece is really, really ugly. I am more interested in your comments regarding Buffalo. I would argue he didn't push him intending harm. By the time this is over, look for the civil suit to settle out around 5 mil.

The video is disturbing on several levels but worse yet was the initial press release. Claiming he tripped and fell was pure bullshit and apparently everyone there went along with it or the PR for the cops got creative.

Given your previous life, how often do you think a cop lied to you in an investigation? How often did the boys in blue close ranks and lie for/with them?

The only saving grace these days is the cell phone video phenomena. Without them, the cover ups may well be endless. Most often there is none.

One final thought. Now that old crazy Joe Arpio is gone, hopefully for good, how much do you think his antics cost tax payers? The old people in Sun City loved him. I went to one speech and was dumb-struck he could have been elected dog-catcher, let alone the head of the largest county in AZ.

[Cal Lash]

Joe's not gone until the fat lady's sing from the balconies

[Cal Lash]

Bill, you do know wailing has a rhythm?

[Cal Lash]

Back from my evening walk into locus Die del desierto. Rabbits and birds skittered through the brush turning brown. Black birds floated on the heat waves. The footsteps are getting louder and closer.

[Cal Lash]

Check
Minnesota city council has enough votes to defund police department.
Check Mate
Will be really ugly when Billy Barr locks down these pawns in a chess game they will not win.
The violence will be brutal.

[Cal Lash]

Will America cease to exist?
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/party-leaders-comrade-leonid-comrade-donald/

[Rogue Columnist]

I am in no hurry to tackle this moment. Too much risk of being misunderstood or committing thoughtcrime. Soleri has addressed the situation well.

[Cal Lash]

Orwell!

[Joe Schallan]

"Your gatherings are a threat, mine aren’t"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/08/we-often-accuse-the-right-of-distorting-science-but-the-left-changed-the-coronavirus-narrative-overnight

[Cal Lash]

Thanks Joe.

[Ruben]

We've had another moon "moon landing" moment that went mostly unnoticed by the media.

Remember, "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" ?

A police chief in Tennessee said, "Maybe we should have officers stop or report abuse by another officer if they see it happening".

What a concept. AND it only took 200 years to think of it.

[Joanna]

You were wrong about one thing: not only liked, but thoroughly enjoyed this column.