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December 02, 2019

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I kno they didn’t mean to diet prior to being stranded though those kids need help -playing near a water and no they weren’t crossing a bridge and probably needed walls around the backyards they live nearby since they cannot swim

Climate change seems to be bringing new threats, the most recent being the three tornado night just a few days ago. I've lived here for over 60 years, and the weather and winds I've experienced in the last 10 years Midtown have been like no other time previous.

Without editorial comment, I will state the following fact. We boomers were the last generation to learn to look both ways before we crossed the street.

"Nature Bats Last"!

Will humans make it to the ninth inning?

"Military style vehicle" reminds me of when I lived in Colorado. Somehow folks there didn't realize 4 wheels driving will spin out on ice just like two wheels driving. The vehicles off the side of the highway stuck in the snow were always the fancy 4WDs.

Tragic on so many accounts. Blame? Plenty to go around. The "military-like truck" was an over-sized cab with a massive flatbed. 9 people in it, hard to visualize unless some of the kids were riding the flatbed. If, and i mean if, the kids that drowned were on the flatbed, mom and dad have some serious questions to be answered.

I am beginning to think Talton's Mapstone series and Betty Webb's "Desert series" should become mandatory reading for any of us moving to Arizona. Perhaps then we would have a basic understanding of life in the desert country and more importantly, surviving it.

I have been personally involved in two similar incidents at Red Rock Crossing on Oak Creek. People insisted that there was a crossing and never mind my warning that it was impassable at that time. It was fortunate that the only thing lost was a vehicle.
The bridge on Bar X road has been a hot topic for years. There have been many similar incidents there over the years.
Yes, a bridge is needed on one of the possible locations. The problem is that "Il Duce" and his cohorts at the legislature want to preserve their "surplus".
The sad truth is that: "You can't fix stupid".

Agreed. We are not living with the desert. We live against it, and treat it like a resource that can be endlessly exploited.

Also:

"The desert, as Cal says, always wins."

Great. All we need is a Cal with a big head. ;-)

Yes, this is a terrible tragedy, especially young children being put at risk due to stupid decisions made by adults. And these people chose to live there knowing full well the situation.

As usual, now "gubmint" is called upon to fix this problem. It would be far cheaper to buy out the private property and be done with it. By the way, a significant number of residents east of the creek do NOT want a bridge, as they fear it would change their world.

Roger, humans will keep winning until they loose. Currently besides the real estate marauders, Donnie and his boys are killing with bulldozers in Organ Pipe National Monument. Even conservative Barry Goldwater respected the environment. And today Nixon would be a commie.
Like Greta i got into this subversive thought process before i was a teenager. Living in a rural setting with pump water, no electricity and outhouses furnished with Sears Catalogs and red and white corn cobs. Around 12 i read "City" by Clifford Simak. Maybe it will end the way Simak wrote in an additional last chapter several years after the first publication. For years i have read and give away copies of Desert Solitare and Cadillac Desert. And of course i have read my Friend Chuck Bowden's books and recommend "Blue Desert." And Stenger and Van Dyke and on and on. And i maintain my Still Suit" after reading Dune by Frank Herbert.. As i sit here this winter of the Dog thousands of Canadians and snow birds and soil bankers have surrounded me playing shuffleboard not shoveling snow.

Sad but nothing new, it just goes down the memory hole.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-northern-az/payson/payson-flash-flooding-deaths-who-are-the-victims

https://www.paysonroundup.com/news/local/memorial-recalls-tragedy-of-labor-day-flood/article_58ae1d02-e996-5321-9d5f-708835a1256f.html

"over-sized cab with a massive flatbed"...makes me think it floated and toppled over.

Sad. I'm sure it will be repeated.

Just finished "Blood Orchid", Blue Desert coming up next.

I think I ran across the suggestion on this site, but the best book I've read this year is "Fantasyland: How America went haywire." It is somehow comforting to better understand the extreme social and political dysfunction we currently experience.

I first read "Desert Solitaire" in 1974 in the Moab area while backpacking for a month. Life-altering. Will have to check out "Blue Desert," Cal, thanks for the tip.

Doggie. Check in at Ken Sanders rare book store in Salt Lake for continuing education credits.

I need a still suit. And I'll check out "Blue Desert". Thanks, Cal. I think I have my Christmas wish list all filled out now.

Anyone spending time in and around Arizona's streams know that a stream bed that is 3 inches deep can suddenly turn into a six foot to ten foot hole if you are not paying attention. During happier times you would call that a fishing hole.

Watching the truck in question being towed out of Tonto creek, it appears the water pushed the truck over one of these deep holes and the outcome occurred. In being towed out in the space of just a few feet the truck went from submerged to just axle deep.

Once emotions subside, it will be interesting to see how the "stupid motorist" law is applied and whether or not criminal charges will filed.

Reading the comments on the various news stories, about half are the "I send my prayers" group and the other half is looking for blood. It is to be expected.

Ruben is correct - this tragedy resulted from bad judgement, very bad judgement by the driver of the car. So sad.

Try this.
ROADLESS WILDERNESS

We need less roads and bridges.
Of course ADOTS answer is another Freeway.

"All The Wild That Remains," by David Gessner is a look at Wallace Stegner and Edward Abbey. Additionally the book mentions others that fit into this scene. For Example, Wendell Berry, Joseph Conrad and Louisa May Alcott. And the guy that makes most environmentalists look like stuffed suits, Doug Peacock. A good read is Peacocks "Grizzly Years." While i dont always agree with Gessner in his almost 300 pages, i paper clipped at least 50 pages that i thought were outstanding.
All said, It's a good read.

Most crimes require criminal intent.
I understand billing foolish folks for foolish acts that require taxpayer supported assistance. But i am not sure i want to see law enforcement prosecute someone who will grieve for the rest of his life over a very foolish act.
I wonder how many times this driver has previously driven through these types of situations.
I would want to see the results of the investigation to determine if there were other facts that might point to criminal behavior.

I agree with Cal. The foolish actions of the adults involved will punish for the rest of their lives. "Piling On" with any type of criminal charges is not necessary.

I once investigated a 3 person fatal car crash where a man trying to impress his lady friend and her child flew off a freeway overhead curved ramp. He obviously intentionally exceeded the suggested safe speedlimit. That was criminal behavior!
An observation i included in my report about retaining wall height was ignored.

Teri, good to see you post. I am coming to Tucson soon to visit with some folks as a result of the publication of "America's Most Alarming Writer."
How about lunch at Tohono Chul?


The worst is yet to come in terms of human loss of life. There will be drought, superstorms, wildfires, and deadly heat. The desert may always win but it won't be recognizable to those who loved its delicate balance of beauty and starkness. If we succeed in creating a much more lethal climate, its allure will vanish along with the wide variety of plant and wildlife.

There's only one real question left for the species that has recklessly altered the biosphere and it has to do with its proportionate sense of responsibility and guilt. The cleverness you might ascribe to your own survival skills in the desert will be sorely tested in the space of a several decades. Most of us here won't live to rue that day but our grandchildren might. And I suspect their regrets will lie less with the unlucky few who disregarded predicatable danger and more with those hardy souls who thoughtlessly destroyed the only climate capable of sustaining human life.

Yep

By Francisco Cantú

I Was a Border Patrol Agent. Our Walls Need to Be Torn Down.

President Trump’s border wall is threatening species and reshaping entire fragile ecosystems.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/opinion/contributors/trump-wall-environment.html

Watching the news last night regarding the still missing Willa, two things struck me:
* Nothing has been said about how this happened and where the kids were; in the truck cab or on the flatbed. And i have seen no reports on what happened, like in an investigation one would normally expect.
* The second is more revealing: A Go-Fund-Me account has now raised more than 100K. I'm pretty liberal and love when people help out on another, but on this i am scratching my head. Horrible tragedy or senseless stupidity by adults who should have know better?

Am i being overly skeptical?

Submit a "public records" request from law enforcement.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/man-found-dead-after-getting-swept-away-by-rushing-water/article_ce44b846-1957-11ea-91b0-bf8d63074c73.html

Same area.

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