« Musing about the future | Main | The field »

September 16, 2019

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Phoenix Parks should acquire this property rip up the asphalt and tear down the structures and develop a full shade of eight (8) acres. A small dirt walking path and a couple of benches for old folks to sit on. I'd toss in a couple of dollars.

I see no need for the organized religious structure to remain. as it continues its decline to dust.

“I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail,” he told the Guardian. “There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” Stephen Hawking

A laugher from the Phoenix and Arizona news posted by Rogue.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-state-least-equipped-fight-140049601.html

Arizona is not equipped to fight organized crime. its set up to commit such.

Shady dealing continues to expose those not in the know.

Given churches declining attendance and dire financial predicaments,
i wonder if "God Has A Future?"

And i am for returning Central Avenue to a two lane between Colter and the Arizona Canal. With open irrigation ditches and huge Cottonwoods.

Pine trees? In 1950 in the Slope it was mostly mesquite bushes. But that was above the canal.

I grew up on 47th Place, near Roosevelt. At the end of the block was the Crosscut Canal, and all along it were Cottonwood trees. I left Phoenix and when I returned for a visit I saw that the Crosscut had been enclosed in cement and that all of the Cottonwoods were gone. There must have been thousands. What was left was a mass of concrete -- no shade, no green -- just a barren emptiness for miles. Another place which exchanged green for concrete was Arizona State University. When I started, in the early 60's, the main route through the campus was still open to cars, and it was lined with trees. It was quite pretty. The road was closed and converted into a mall -- a concrete slab hundreds of yards long, with built-in seating areas which were way too hot in the summer, and way too cold in the winter, but that's concrete. The trees were ripped up, of course.

James. I can arrange to get you a good Still Suit at a reasonable price from my pal Duncan Idaho.

Jon, this column demonstrates exactly why you need to keep writing about Phoenix. You bring in the history and the current reality. Without the history, no one would know that there was a shade tree past in Phoenix and what is possible. And you compare that to the current reality. I have only lived in Phoenix since 1983, but I have seen us move backwards on living sustainably in the desert and my frustration only grows. After over 35 yers living in Phoenix, I'm actually glad I sold my house so I'm in a position to move to a more environmentally sustainable climate if needed. I returned to town in early September instead of my usual mid-October to 108 degrees after sunset. I remember when the temperature use to drop substantially after Labor Day, especially at night, but no more.

Shepherd of the Valley is in our neighborhood. There's universal dismay over this development. From what I've read, no zoning change is required to build the gated community. There's nothing much the neighbors can do. We'll miss the pines. Besides, gated communities don't make good neighbors.

Ed, you all might try getting it stalled and make a pitch for the city council and mayor to consider alternatives.

I just returned from Minnesota where I visited the tiny town where I grew up. It was about 250 people in the 50's, now about 150. Pretty much every business is gone, and to my surprise, so are the churches. Both the Catholic and Lutheran churches are closed and there is debate about what to do with them. Never thought I'd see that.

There are some positive things happening with shade trees in the city, SRP offers free trees and workshops to help people understand how to plant and care for them. SRP and the city of Tempe offer rebates on more water-efficient technology to irrigate trees and other vegetation. Tempe leadership is mostly supportive of not having it turn into Apache Junction in terms of landscaping (supposedly a quote from the Mayor...) When I come home in the evening to south Tempe, I watch the temperature drop 3 or 4 degrees as soon as I cross the Western Canal.

Tempe was once a nice village.
Thanks to Harry and Neil
its one ugly city.
At least it still has the Valley Art Theater and across the street one of my favorite book stores. Owned and operated by two cool octogenarians.
For myth followers there is catholic and muslim enclaves within walking distance of Mill and University.

Ps, The western canal path is Concrete ?

Yes it is, Cal, with lighting and user-activated crossing lights.

It wasnt a question.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/draining-arizona-residents-say-corporate-mega-farms-are-drying-their-n1052551

About five years ago I had lunch in Wilcox and the locals were complaining about the dairy farms and water consumption.

So the answer by Arizona and Trump is to get more residents nearby to buy more milk.
https://tucson.com/news/local/huge-benson-development-near-san-pedro-river-gets-federal-ok/article_411fd12a-779a-51db-9be7-650d1d4e5666.html

"Yes it is, Cal, with lighting and user-activated crossing lights."

Solar powered?

Clarification of my Absurdity.
Digging ditches was a HoHoKam mistake as was T.R 's. He should have declared the territories comprising Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico Roadless Wilderness.

Perhaps T.R. should have...but he didn't.

And so, here we are.

Setting Santayana's famous dictum aside for a moment, there's very little to be gained from living in the past.

I disagree

"[Y]ou all might try getting it stalled and make a pitch for the city council and mayor to consider alternatives." Cal, I'm no expert in this area but I'm somewhat familiar with the law. As I understand it, given that the developer doesn't need a zoning change, the City's role will be limited to conducting a plan review. City personnel have very limited discretion when conducting such reviews. Even if we could somehow get to the council and mayor, I wouldn't be optimistic about their reaction, based on what I've been hearing from friends who have a lot of experience in this area.

Thank you for your thoughts on what is an appalling trend happening all over the Valley. The Tree and Shade Master Plan only works if is followed. I am a neighbor to the Sheppard of the Valley Church and will be horrified if/when these old, majestic trees are cut down. Let's hope reason prevails and the trees can be incorporated into the new development.

Elayne, there probably will be trees in the gated community. They won't be mature pines, though.

The pines are reportedly in the path of the wall or fence the developer will construct. Gotta have some place to put those No Trespassing signs.

TR couldn't have. Congress never would have allowed it and the sovereign states involved wouldn't have allowed it, nor would the interests in the territories.

In any case, this is off-topic, which is how to keep Phoenix livable, and shade trees are essential.

"Off Topic"
Keeping phoenix livable is wet dream.
Jon
Thanks for the info in why T R couldnt.
Thats why you got all them degrees and ASU tokd me to not enroll. But i do know how to pick grapes and lettuce and run the sweet potato sheds.

I'm sure there's a very good reason why providing shade trees couldn't be written into any building contract needing city approval, the way that public "art" used to be.

Barring that, public shaming is probably the only way to go.

And since the concept of "shame" has gone out of fashion for half of the electorate...like I said, "here we are."

Shade trees for the Titanic? The band plays on. Maricopa County is Republican urban planning at its finest.

How Sinema is treated is no indication of the 2020 presidential election results. It’s all about voting patterns in Wisconsin and Michigan which white Arizona Democrats and “moderates” haven't a clue.

Burn, baby, burn.

ED, I took upon myself to call the Phoenix Mayor’s office this morning at 8:37 AM and talk to Renada about the Development at 1500 W Maryland. I was going to tell them I was Ed Kabong but instead gave them my real name and phone number. I did tell them I once drove Mayor Margret Hance home each afternoon from the office. Renada said she would pass my concerns on to the TEAM.

So before I called the city this AM,
last night I reached out to
Peg at Dante Durant’s.
She said she was still pissed off from the time she found out from Marty Schultz that I wouldn’t endorse her for her last run at the Mayor’s office.

However she did say that if she were Mayor that she would have the city buy that property and build a park. I told her thanks I would pass that along to the new mayor and maybe suggest what to name the park.

Slow Draw Cal

I saw yesterday that the city is planting trees along the Grand Canal bank at Thomas and the Canal.

It would be nice if we could all get along and the developers could incorporate all or most of the trees into the new neighborhood. Most home buyers would appreciate mature trees, I would think.

I read the comments above, so I guess the developers reportedly have their reasons not keep the trees. Seems like an unneeded waste of good trees.

I tend to agree with RC that trees are desirable, even if non-native. I've heard the story about about how old-time (like pre-Talton era) Phoenix was a sanctuary for sufferers of TB, asthma, allergies and other respiratory ailments but the mass importation of non-native flora killed that. Is that true?

I've found no evidence of that, Jon7190. The attractiveness of Phoenix for people with lung ailments coincided with its apex as an oasis. And places such as Sunnyslope, north of the Arizona, were pure desert.

Smog is the big problem now. Phoenix is one of the worst cities for people with lung ailments.

When I moved into the dry and barren Sunnyslope in 1950 it was for my father’s Pneumonia he suffered from in Iowa winters and my Asthma and other severe allergies (like ragweed) I suffered from in Iowa summers. It was a great move for both of us. During my 4 years there I sold Doughnuts to the large encampments of similar folks, particularly in the Wabash Trailer court (now gone but the D0 Drop Inn is still across the street( 9501 N 7th Street) where MCSO deputy Bill Brown would frequently close it for the night by racking one into his shotgun). North of the slope was a “healthy” Shangri La Nudist ranch at the foot of Lone Mountain. I think they are still in business. And then of course the unhealthy rich and others hung out at Castle hot Springs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnyslope,_Phoenix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hot_Springs_(Arizona)

By 1980, Bigger Phoenix had got to the point that my allergies were on the rise again.
Today I can drive in from the desert
to 7th street and Thomas and immediately notice the difference in my respiratory system. In Phoenix I now keep the windows closed and the A/C on.

My closet obsessions are trees, shade trees in Phoenix, and rainwater. I wasn't here to see the valley in its verdant days, so I can only speak to our situation today.

* Tree butchers. A sliver of the reason shade trees are rarer is on account of maintenance contractors taking away the shade. You have seen these, I call them "the idea of trees", in every parking lot. You could park a double decker bus under one.

* Wrong tree in the wrong place. Those pines in the picture are running afoul of the power lines, and I'm sorry to say they either the lines get buried or the trees come out. Or they live as on hideous creatures.

* Greater planting of native and adapted trees (far more of them). The ideal would be to architect a site that sheds runoff water towards the trees, for a low or zero-input solution. They are then "free" shade that can handle a hard freeze.

Flood irrigated neighborhoods are special places that should be treated and appreciated as such!

As a kid, my family, friends and I swam and played basketball at the Jewish Community Center, which used to be at 18th Ave and Maryland. We passed by this incredible building and its trees often. The 15th Ave corridor from Bethany up to Dunlap is still a great example of Jon's "old city". This church is big part of it. So are the trees.

Phoenix Homesteads:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/08/13/phoenixs-homesteads-neighborhood-visually-iconic-cbt/31431797/

Where the trees have gone and why I keep hanging out with Thomas and Jared.
https://lithub.com/are-civilization-and-income-inequality-inextricably-intertwined/

Yucca Valley, California, now has a Tree ordinance for Joshua Trees, and is much greener than Phoenix !

Joe, i drive through the 28st north of Thomas about once a month.

I moved to Phoenix at 1 year old in 1990. Really appreciate the perspective you have on the city's history and development, seemingly often for the negative. It's shocking how unconcerned about climate change much of the city seems to be.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)