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September 24, 2015


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Trump is a joke.
Hillary is a joke.
The media is a joke.

How come ain't none of us laughing?

I read recently that there was a poll (Gallup?) that (Finally) recently looked at DT head-to-head with the other "major" gop candidates. He lost to each except for jeb! I've been wondering all along whether he simply had a firm, fairly set plurality that would not grow as the field was winnowed. I wonder where the HUNDREDS of walker supporters will throw their allegiance. Also where the Kochs will move the stake that they had in him, so to speak.
But even if that polling is to be believed, the Gop still might nominate him. The contest resembles something between a survivor type TV show and a acquarium of peculiar fishes, WITH a few piranhas thrown in. The GOP "greater good" (is that an oxymoron?) might get bypassed in this dynamic. But DT is in it to win it and won't bow out unless it suits only him to do so. And if his quest comes to a forced end, he will likely go out inflicting as much damage as he can.
Your take on Harding, who until 2001 was in the running for titles of stupidest and worst presidents ever, comports with John Dean's. Dean portrays him as an intelligent and accomplished man.
As for the general election, things might be splintered by then in both parties. And it might well hinge on the public's reactions to events that are as yet unanticipated. And consider the public. Who will want to vote? who will register to vote, or try to? Who will be allowed to vote? We've never seen a general election with as much money as will be thrown into 2016. The public will be saturated with all sorts of information, most of it of the worst kind.
If I had to bet on a winner, purely about the $$$, I'd put it on HRC at this point.

Obviously, I hardly think being a CEO should disqualify someone.

I like Carly because she started from nothing and got into truly rarefied air. The video (and speaking) responses to Trump's stupidity were perfect. I like the directness and the way she communicates.

Not a word about Bernie and his "18 trillion and counting" policies. Can there ever be too much "common good"?

Speaking of the common good, the city of Chicago is contemplating about $500M in property tax increases to help pay for current retiree benefits. Not more cops, teachers, buses or fireman. Just to pay the retirees.

Is that common good? If Rahm tries to give then a haircut (and he has), is that against the common good?

Good news from Brazil:

The carried interest preference is chicken feed. $1B to $2B per year:

Still a lot of time left.

Better think long and hard about a candidate who can help lead to get the economy and the budget under control.

Odd times.

Donald Trump is a braying jackass in a nation where citizens are too stupid to understand their own interests. He embodies everything Republicans are supposed to hate: crony capitalism, libertinism, and higher taxes on the rich. But what saves him is his boorish egomania and bigotry. That's the American part, and Republicans freed from the ideological gruel of Randian schoolmarms, respond the way Lee Atwater and Karl Rove programmed them. What's fascinating is that he even jumps the color barrier with his no-class approach to politics:

I can't imagine this asshole surviving the fall, but who else is there except - shudder - Marco Rubio, the altar boy in this rectory of pedophile priests. Ben Carson, a brain surgeon disputing the theory of evolution? A failed CEO, Carly Fiorina, lying her way through a debate by casting Planned Parenthood as our new cosmic enemy? Mike Huckabee, playing the Dumb White Trash card to the hilt? Jeb Bush, the mild-mannered panderer to "values voters"?

The problem with Trump (or Carson and Fiorina) is the same problem with Bernie Sanders. He's not a party guy but a free-lancer. Bernie, at least, has the requisite messiah-like qualities that you expect in a truth-teller. Trump only has his id. And that's a problem in a nation already given to wholesale denial about reality and responsibility.

HL Mencken was fond of calling his fellow citizens "boobs", and maybe 2016 is finally the year we prove him right. As bad as we have become, I still think we'll opt for a smart lawyer over a crude blowhard. But there's something cautionary in the winds now. Trump should have imploded already. That he hasn't makes me doubt my own analysis, not to mention sanity.

Sadly, I think your last sentence is right on the target, Soleri. I am a descendent of pioneer Wisconsin people, and I have seen Scott Walker destroy our once Progressive state in a few short years. None of the old rules of decency and common good apply in America anymore. Tragic. Americans are too busy planning their next trip to Disneyland to notice that our Democracy is gone.

This republican if forced at gun point to pick one of the current Republican candidates would tell them to shoot me. But if I chickened out I would choose Trump.

We should just vote Trump in and get it over with, that is - the long slow death of the good ol' U.S.A.

Well the good "Ole USA" for this crumedgeon was 1950 to 1980.

Carly started from "nothing"? Her father was the dean of Duke's law school, an Assistant Attorney General, and a judge on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Her mother was an abstract painter. As a child, she attended Channing School in London. Chew on that while you reality-test the idea that Carly emerged from an environment as challenging as, say, Barack Obama's or Bill Clinton's. Consider, too, she got a BA in Medieval history from Stanford. Where in this high-toned environment do you think she picked up this extraordinary obsession with fetuses?

Carly's career low-point was a summer she worked as a receptionist after quitting law school. She then went to Bologna to teach English for a year. Salt of the Earth!

Her ""qualification"" (even the quotation marks require quotation marks) to be president is apparently her less than lustrous stewardship of H-P, where she undertook the epic buy-out of Compaq for $19 billion. 30,000 lay-offs later and weak stock performance, Fiorina was kicked out, much to the glee of virtually every H-P employee. She's been rewriting history ever since in right-wing media but the consensus is still negative. From that vantage point you can see her Republican genes in all their mutated glory.

She is an instinctive liar, not to mention overdramatizer. During the debate she flamboyantly segued froma question about marijuana legalization a highly personal disclosure that drugs had killed her daughter. She didn't mention the step-daughter was 35 and had long been addicted to PRESCRIPTION drugs and alcohol, which are legal. The implication was that marijuana somehow led to this misfortune, in which light Fiorina's upset was less sincere than brazen.

I'll grant Carly this much, however: by comparison to the other Klowns in the Kar, she's crisp and plausible as a "candidate" (not president, mind you). She's not semi-comatose like Ben Carson, nor suffers from the delirious slasher-flick creepiness of Ted Cruz. But she has no history of real public issue advocacy (that fetus thing sort of came of nowhere....) until she was hired by Republicans to be their outreach spokesperson for women who think politicians should monitor their private parts. She campaigned hard to be John McCain's veep pick but party pros were worried her very generous H-P severance package would raise eyebrows. All this and Hillary-baiting constitute her public portfolio. Take my advice: short this stock.

Trump will be gone soon enough. In many ways the good citizens of the USA deserve Trump.

Soleri, did U mean The Big Short?

Hey, lay off of Carly. She increased the number of jobs at HP.
….. You say it happened because of the merger with Compaq?….. She what? She laid off 30000 people? … Wow. I feel so cheap.


She's not where she is because of who she married.

That alone makes her the best female candidate in the game.

Let's see.

Harvard? No. Fat cat boys club? No. Parents able to influence her success in the private sector? No. First woman EVER to be a CEO at a Fortune 20 Company? Yes. Outsider? Probably.

She was a Kelly girl and wound up as CEO of Hewlett Packard.

You think that's easy? You think that doesn't show an extraordinary amount of tact, savvy, intelligence, understanding, and success?

Did I mention that her husband had nothing to do with her success?

Look. I know how your side pretends that successful business people can't be successful politicians; Rogue's comments make that crystal clear. It's like kryptonite to you guys.

But the economy isn't all just charts and graphs. Maybe someone who actually does business with banks, or confronts the regulatory morass, or understands foreign markets, or has to make tough calls, or has to steer a large, complex ship through all kinds of waters just might work as President.

Couple other things..

She didn't utterly fail with Hillary care. She wasn't 100% upside down about a vast right wing conspiracy.

She's involved with some foundations, but she's smart enough to understand what the term "ignorant and brazen political and financial conflict and influence peddling" means.

I'm not aware of any successful commodity trades she's made. You?

And I bet she's bright enough to work more than one cell phone, so the whole "personal server to assure a veto over any information, be it classified or not" issue won't come up.

She's also direct, and I certainly understand your discomfort with that.

Did I mention that her success has nothing to do with her spouse?

BTW, you're right about one thing (broken clock is right twice a day). She didn't start as far behind as Bill Clinton or Obama. Or Sonya Sotomayor. Or Ronald Reagan. Or Marco Rubio.

And I think it's amazing what folks like that are able to accomplish.

And none of them got where they got because of who they married.

Why argue?

She's a conservative. You're not going to engage in any serious evaluation of her.

You forgot her obvious racist agenda.

The good news from Brazil: corporate money is banned from politics in a Brazil Supreme Court decision. I am sure their oligarchs will find a way around it, but its a good start

Good news in the USA: the Koch brothers lose $35M investment in a dullard.

Can’t really argue the criticisms of Trump and I won’t. Ditto for Carly. If they were good businessmen, I might have a better case. They aren’t/weren’t.

My only dispute is the lambasting of Warren Harding and the “worst president” tag. This designation is puzzling, given that he followed Woodrow Wilson – a president truly in the running for the prize. So sick of Wilson’s regime, his own party wouldn’t nominate him for a third term. Harding never really campaigned for the GOP nomination or presidential election – yet won by a landslide. His main attribute: “I’m not Woodrow Wilson”.

Inphx given your logic Trump, Trumps Carly.
But then she did come
out on top
in last debate.
But for this Republican,
Bernie seems to be the only candidate
I would have a beer with.
Maybe he can get Jose Mujica for VP.

Jerry thanks for that info. But never happen here.
Plus my corporation is a person providing $ to Ralph Nader. What he is not running. OK then, Ross Perot.

INPHX, you skipped merrily around the elephant in the middle of the room without even taking a breath, so congratulations on putting a 55 gallon drum of lipstick on its lips. Fiorina is "qualified" to be president because she's the first female CEO of a Fortune 500 company? Really? So, besides that tokenism and the fact that her husband didn't help her, what else? Any public crusades (beside her lately discovered fetish about fetuses)?
Any kind of civic involvement for the public betterment? Any sort of signature issue, say like Hillary's lifelong crusade for health-care reform? Any political experience beside fellating conservative plutocrats? Any high-level appointments, not necessarily Secretary of State, but anything? Okay. How about some philanthropic work, say like the Clinton Foundation but benefiting our neglected billionaires? Okay, how about a courageous stand or two? Anything?

What you have here are Carly and Ben vying for this cycle's Hermann Cain award. Two absolutely inexperienced people running for the highest office in the land not on real issues, not on real experience, not on real concerns, but solely on their biographies. And what's the pay-off? A permanent seat in the Krazy Klown Kar of right-wing bullshit.

Obviously, Republicans are beyond this whole governing thingie. Even Jeb Bush, an actual adult forced to pander to idiots, knows something about responsibility. Sadly, as a Republican, he's a would-be leader of a toxic cult of know nothings. It doesn't matter how nice he is just like it doesn't matter that Carly was pretty much a failure at H-P. What matters is simply paying off corporate sugar daddies and keeping the right-wing Wurlitzer going full blast. This is your party now, as weepy John Boehner could tell you over a half dozen martinis. Ronald Reagan,too, would be a RINO in Ted Cruz's Washington.

A party based on fear and greed can do no better than manufactured politicians served up to bedazzle an ignorant mob. That's why Jeb seems so inauthentic. If it's all about the base's (misdirected) rage, there's no longer any place for policy, let alone compromise with a party that actually still pays attention to details. You think Carly is nifty precisely because she doesn't engage actual issues and problems. She's like you. Crisp, snarly, and vacuous.

Gloves off. Debate fighting. No rules. No round limits. Last man or woman standing. WOW.
And we got a ring side seat right here on ROGUE!!


Looks like we just have a difference in what the meaningful criteria are for considering a Presidential candidate.

I prefer an outsider, self made woman who performed an almost miraculous ascension to the very top of corporate America, who also happens to be conservative.

You prefer a carpetbagging, insider, scandal ridden woman whose entire career rests on the laurels of her husband. Who, I guess, is a progressive but who will pivot on any issue based on the latest polls.

Fair enough?

Soleri & INPHX- for your delectation:

And Dawgzy and INPHX, another juicy tidbit for your delectation.

More about Carly:

Oh. my!!!

Egg headed elite, completely insulated from the real world in the ivory towers of academia, with absolutely no real business experience, takes pot shots at a woman who rose to a level five years into her career that he could have never achieved.

Stay on the sidelines, Mr. Sonnenfeld. Stick with the charts and the graphs and your legions of rich, spoiled kids letting you know what a genius you are.

The real game might be a bit too much for you.

He compared HP to Google and Facebook.

What a chump.

INPHX, calm down. Your name calling is unbecoming of a CPA.

Is your first choice now Carly?

Staying on subject of Rogue's post-Be afraid,be very afraid.As for inphx and soleri,I'm with Cal-we got us a real debate right here.I'll try to follow between naps.

Sonnenfold: elite snob, silver spoon, etc,
Born in Philadelphia, April 1, 1954, Jeffrey Sonnenfeld is the son of Burton Sonnenfeld, a men’s clothing retailer and Rochelle Sonnenfeld, a healthcare planner and community leader, who came to the US as a refugee immigrant from Russian pogroms. Sonnenfeld attended public schools in Cheltenham and Abington townships in suburban Montgomery County Pennsylvania and was an active school leader. While his summers were spent working in the community as an Eagle Scouts counselor, he worked through the year in his parents’ retail clothing store in nearby Hatboro, Pennsylvania. He earned his AB, MBA, and doctorate at Harvard University, and during his undergraduate days, he was President of WHRB, the college radio station, as well as an oarsmen. At age 26, he joined the faculty of the Harvard Business School where he taught for 10 years.[1]

Well. let me chime in on Trump

1. I hope he isn't the nominee.

2. I don't think he'll be the nominee.

3. If he's the nominee, he won't win.

4. He will not be a good President. I understand why folks are attracted to the Dirty Harry/no nonsense/ tells it like it is portrayal, but those are not relevant Presidential traits.

I could probably live with all the other GOP nominees except Cruz and Huckabee. Paul is unelectable.

There's a long way to go.....

I like Carly and think she provides a stark contrast to Hillary and that women might have a big voice in the election.

"I like Carly and think she provides a stark contrast to Hillary "
Stark did U mean Shark? Seems they both swim in the same filthy corrupt pool.

and whats wrong with Bernie

"relevant presidential traits"
Neither did Reagan (terrible Governor) nor Obama (a wet nose kid). But TR and LBJ did.
So who U got that can measure up to TR and LBJ?
I see no one on the stage.

How about McChrystal. A cross of IKE (military) and JFK (sleeping with the spies).

INPHX- did you read the Politico piece? My politics, and the differences between us aside, isn't it a warning to Republicans generally? That is, assuming that there's something to it. Talk about unelectable.
On another topic, what is it about these pediatric neurosurgeons? We had one run for governor here against Kitzhaber ( I didn't vote for either one. Pogo's my man... er, possum.)

In case U all didn't know McChrystal ' s nick name is
"The POPE"

oops did I mean Petraeus?

Let's see, Carly:

Woman who ran a company into the ground. Fact.

Outsourced 32K jobs. Fact.

Got fired and received $100M as a reward. Fact.

Ads in Ohio are writing themselves.

As far as her being a woman, and neutralizing the "war on women" qua her being a woman, uh, no. Women know other women. And I'm not talking about your "hur hur, women, cat fights!" bullshit, guys.

Women just know other women in that we know that there are women who support us and women who don't. Carly is in the latter category.

More bad reviews for Carly:

Sifting through the rubble of Carly Fiorina's public life, it dawned on me that the best Republicans can do now is celebrate some stick figure with an irrelevant biography. Donald Trump's garish business career did not make him rich, his only tangential qualification. He was born rich but it did make him famous. By contrast, Carly Fiorina's career did make her rich but it wasn't performance that did that. It was simply walking-away money. This is the person INPHX would invest his hopes for a GOP victory: someone whose highest profile job was also her greatest setback. Why not nominate General Custer in absentia?

Hillary Clinton, by contrast, was intimately involved in her husband's presidency. She was an elected US Senator. She was Secretary of State. She's has a history of issue advocacy unparalleled in current American life. This disqualifies in some minds because of the vacuous assertion that "we need a fresh face". Or someone "untainted by Washington". This is the reasoning of a stupid mob, but this mob is very, very upset, to the point, indeed, it would burn the house down in a fit of pique. John Boehner is its latest casualty. The lunatic fringe does not suffer pragmatists or compromisers, that is, people who actually make the process work.

Republicans are now a rump party based geographically in the South and ideologically in electronic media that reward demagoguery and sound bites. It no longer pretends to have any real-world policy positions aside from rewarding the rich in any way it can. That's it. True, it cries crocodile tears about fetuses. It detests Islam. It weeps for the lost religious liberty to impose its bigotry. It flamboyantly hates the illegal aliens who harvest our food and build our houses. And it stands resolutely against giving blacks "free stuff". Other than that, what matters? We're a touchy-feely nation now in tune with the collective hysteria that defines our national soul.

Republicans are marching valiantly toward a cliff and shall not be deterred by anything so quaint as love of country. That part has been dying a slow death. A party preoccupied by the fear of "others" along with greed (a corresponding emotional vector) has now devolved to a suicide cult. The rest of us can only stand back and marvel and wonder if in its rubble will be anything worth reclaiming, say a speech by Abraham Lincoln or a cautionary reminder by Dwight Eisenhower.

Carly is indefensible.
Hillary is indefensible.

To try to defend them makes us have to classify you as a brainwashed party hack.

Ok Ruben, how about Petraeus for president and McChrystal for VP and Bernie Sanders head of the CIA?

Carly is a Joke but Hillary I think will be defeated by the "PENDING" criminal investigation.
It's the Old Clinton," I didnt", problem.

Petraes and mc crystal should be in line with bush, Cheney, Obama, et al for war crime trials.


Oh, the horrors!!

Carly had a contract (just like every other public company CEO) that protected her downside.

And that's BAD??

Maybe you can inform me about every contract Hillary has ever entered into to run a public company. Or any company.

Maybe you guys can help me with this:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Or this:

but the good news is that she got "the surge" right.

Oh, wait...

Hillary lied, troops died?


She's such a kook, she thinks Veterans should have choice!!!

How can you guys support that???

INPHX, you're right Hillary was not a profile in courage when it came to your team's grotesque manipulation of intelligence. I'll assume you know she wasn't the one cooking the books in Langley, or feeding Judith Miller Curveball's hallucinations. She was wrong to think your team could be trusted. America was wrong, too. They voted for it twice, along with the worst foreign policy debacle in American history. And somehow, troops died because of Hillary? The brazenness of that assertion is not simply College Republicans playing their vaunted Asshole Card. It's pure McCarthyism, the kind Republicans have reflexively played over the decades and used to distort American interests into a twisted Manichaenism that resulted in the Vietnam War, Central American death squads, and the WMD delirium in Iraq. And, needless to say, they're not done, whipping up anti-Islamic fervor for the Next Existential Threat (ISIS!), which will then devolve into a patriotic carnival where right-wing chickenhawks accuse Democrats of favoring Muslims over Real Americans.

Anyone who can conflate Planned Parenthood and ISIS (Carly) is clearly not thinking logically, although she probably thinks exactly the way you like: confuse people with hysteria and then govern as if America's billionaire class was only her real interest. There's a methodology to right-wing hysteria and it hasn't escaped my attention who profits the most from it.

If you're the kind of numskull who sees a false equivalency between the major political parties and that one person's apology means as much as another person's non-apology, then you'll deserve to get a government that lies to you. If you can make a reasonable judgment about culpability, you'll probably weigh that apology with more forgiveness than you would an intentional deceit from those actually in charge.


That's about what I thought your response would be-the standard, tired and empty headed liberal response. Her vote and support were someone else's fault.

You guys figure out a way to blame Benghazi on Bush yet??

But that's a really tough out when someone is President, isn't it? You know- it's someone else's fault?

What excuse will you dream up if she's in the White House? Where does "sorry" get you then?

I seem to recall someone famous saying something about where the buck stops....

The good news is your team has gotten so good at it- you know, it's their fault. All these great ideas without the leadership to get them implemented-but it's there fault. Point a finger. Make accusations. Throw in a bunch of "isms"- and here we are. Budget a fiasco? Blame them. Race relations in the toilet? Blame them. Tax policy? Them again. immigration? Well, we'd open the borders but it's their fault!!

Did you read the link about her vote on the surge? Politically motivated, according to Gates. Not for the troop. Not against the troops Not comfortable with the strategy. Not against the strategy. But fully aware of how her vote would look when she was ginning up for a fight with Obama for the nomination. Which she lost.

Boy- I used to think she was a cold, calculating, politically driven woman who would say or do anything just to get to the next level.

Glad that's cleared up.

Carly Fiorina is Sarah Palin with a better shade of lipstick. But not much else.

Benghazi? Really? Someone with better intermediate-term memory please pull up a piece where prominent republican see that the big B is a nothing burger. That won't keep trey gowdey from making a career out of pimping it ( bless his pointy little head.) Hillary is stuck in scandal because every possible misstep or wrongdoing gets turned into one. It's a industry. I don't like her, will vote for her only if I have to. I think that all of the Confidential magazine churning is likely to play out as rope-a-dope. Cold be wrong. INPHX were you concerned about W's operation using RNC e-mails for government business? You probably didn't know about it at the time, partially, I'm guessing, your info filters kept it from registering. If you knew, did you care about it?

Inphx, if U could name ANYONE you wanted to B the Next President, other than yourself, who would that be?

INPHX, take a deep breath. It wasn't Hillary making a fraudulent case for the Iraq fiasco. It was Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rice. True, she voted the wrong way on the AUMF. She paid a price for it, too, in 2008. I supported Obama, and I was very aware of my reasons for doing so. It was a political mistake she deservedly paid for. But did she knowingly lie about it? Did she lean on the CIA to come up with "stuff" about Saddam? Did she feed bad intel to the NYT and then cites the Times as a corroborating source? Did she fundamentally mislead the nation about the real reasons for invading Iraq? No. That was your team. The very fact it hasn't ever paid a price for it in their own party tells me everything I need to know about Republicans. You never apologize, you never admit mistakes, and you cover up for your own team. Constantly.

Compare and contrast: Hillary loses the Democratic nomination largely because of her vote for the AUMF. John McCain wins the GOP nomination largely on continuing the Iraq misadventure. You can't lie too much if you're a Republican, can you? It's almost as if we expect Republicans to lie pathologically. The base loves those lies. Jeb is busy lying again that his brother "kept us safe". The brazenness is amazing. You people are not only shameless, you behave the same way cultists do. You're that brainwashed.

In 1968, Democrats had a civil war over Vietnam. The most conscious among us knew the war was based on a lie that was eating our souls. Republicans? Ho hum. Stay the course! Secret plan! Wave the flag! You people are sheep, except rather more vicious.

I don't care about the surge. It's a micro-issue cooked up by the same assholes who got us into Iraq and never apologized for. May they rot in hell. And I hope you're busy fellating them while they roast on a spit.

Carly, Hillary indefensible. Wipe the foam off your mouths. Look up the word. Put on a clean pair of underwear. Look up the word. Indefensible. You can do it. Take a deep breath.

Ruben, I know what the word means. What I don't know is why anyone would take anything you say seriously. If you have an argument, make it. If you don't, shut up.

what soleri wrote on Iraq Invasion and Hillary.

INPHX won't admit or acknowledge the Republican Party's responsibility for criminal acts its members commited to invade Iraq and subsequently lose the war. All warnings of what would occur from the unlawful invasion; the destabilization of the Middle East, increased terrorism, and the massive maiming and death of US military personnel have come to pass.

The Republican Party, the self-proclaimed party of individual responsibility, still hasn't accepted responsibility for the disaster it unilaterally inflicted on the Middle East and the American people.

"He kept us safe" as W stood next to the rubble of the Twin Towers which of course happened on his watch. Denial for the powerful, individual responsibility for society's vulnerable, that is the Republican Way.

The same foreign policy team that brought us the disastrous invasion of Iraq is Jeb's team. That alone is enough to vote for Hillary with all her purported shortcomings.

In pursuit of Seriousness. Given that on a good day my IQ reaches a 100 I find seriousness a difficult subject to navigate.
Somewhere around 66 I lost my ability to get serious. So I come here to this blog to read the really serious commentary of some brilliant folks that visit this site. Normally it takes me a couple of days to absorb and figure out what was said. But I also come here to not be serious and just languish in the absurdity of unlikely possibilities. So in defense of my pal Ruben, let us not require him to mount a ten paragraph defense of his occasional short critical and somewhat absurd comments.

The only Serious problem.

I am still in a place where I seriously believe the candidates are unworthy of the chore of President. “Qualifications” I reckon give Hillary the edge but I believe she is a war hawk and a liar. But we had much worse with George Jr and his lying and murderous tribe.

I still like Bernie even if he “can’t win”. Can’t win means Hillary and her backers can’t handle another defeat as they did by the much more masterful team that brought us Obama. Obama still has a team that is extremely competent. Look at what they did to American Israel Public Affairs Committee -0n the Iran deal.
So Hillary rings the golden ring does she make Obama the Ambassador to the UN?

Ruben here U go, “We cannot be represented in the world. The world demands objectivity and precision which is not a characteristic of consciousness.”

Bernie and the Pope.

soleri, that's kind of what I was asking you to do. So, do it.


Swell job of clearing everything up. It wasn't Hillary's fault. I think you already had made that assertion, and, yes indeed, congratulations on your certification as a "Hillary Apologist".

I don't know how you give a sitting US Senator a pass.

Oh, wait. Yes I do. Something to do with Vietnam. Oh, and sheep.

Who will you blame if she's in the white House?

You're cheerleading for a woman who voted for the Iraq war, believed Saddam had WMD, wants choice in the VA, gave herself a pocket veto over any of her emails as Secretary of State, voted against the surge only to try to beat Obama, failed with Hillary care, is rich, was on the Board of Wal-Mart, helps run a foundation that defines the term corrupt, beat a million to one odds on some commodity trades that were rigged for her, started the "birther" movement, and has lied and dodged issues about the emails,

and whose entire career is based on her spouse.

But the good news is how she has shown time and time again how well she can unite people.

BTW, the comment about oral sex and the spit would embarrass Larry Flynt.

Or H.L. Mencken

But not you, I guess.

BTW, someone who writes something ignorant like that should hardly think it their part to throw down on Ruben and tell him to shut up. Seems a little arrogant, ill tempered, and condescending to me.


I've said before I would vote for and support Michael Bloomberg for any office in the country. Same with Mitch Daniels. Always liked Joe Lieberman. I liked Mitt a lot, too.


What's your favorite tin foil (you know, for the hats) and maybe you can let Soleri know where you buy it.

More Carly, still relevant:

And more Carly...

I'm not sure what Cal and Ruben are getting at when the call Hillary a "liar". Has she misresprented her biography in a signifcant way like Carly? Has she told flat-out whoppers like Mitt Romney? Most importantly, has she told a lie so grave that it led to the single-worst foreign policy event in American history? If you're okay with George W Bush not only telling that lie but intentionally constructing it, it's more than a little cheeky to come here and pretend Hillary's "lie" is worse for trusting his.

There are lies we all tell when we litigate the "truth" to our own benefit. This is human nature. We take our side, and no one does that better than a trained lawyer. The most obvious liar in recent American history was Richard Nixon. The Nixon antidote was Jimmy Carter, neither a lawyer nor a successful president. Possibly there are worse things than litigating the truth.

I understand perfectly well why people don't like Hillary. She's very smart and a very aggressive lawyer. If you're the kind of citizen who needs to "relate" to the president as if he/she were your best friend, you'll look for someone from the fringes, say a Ben Carson or Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, real change take place in where politicians vet one another in terms of their trustworthiness. It was interesting, in this vein, to hear Harry Reid pay John Boehner this sterling compliment the other day: "he never misled me".

Hillary Clinton is the overwhelming choice among her peers, colleagues, and activists in the Democratic Party. Bernie has virtually no support here because he's a purist who grandstands that purity in ways that doesn't lead to real political change so much as attracts attention to himself and his "message". That's why he won't be the nominee. He's a gadfly using his candidacy to advance his ideology.

One reason I hang out here is to support Rogue's real-world position in a phantasmagoria of reality-shifting feelings and quasi-religious hysteria. A meme gets seeded in our minds and we're convinced through a herd mentality that "we need a fresh face from outside Washington".

No. You. Don't.

We need to make the process work. If you want to burn down the house because politicians lie (just like the rest of us), please don't add to the craziness or poison the discourse with your childlike sincerity. Boehner is gone, for example, and now a genuine True Believer will take his place. Are you happy with that? Really?

No one needs to hear this more than Republicans who have sabotaged their party, the nation, and their children's future for the sake of a purity so obnoxious they're now the laughingstock of the Free World. Ted Cruz anyone?

Democrats are still a real political party. Hillary Clinton is still real-world politician. She makes the best deal she can and she moves on. If you need an animatronic Ronald Reagan to convince you "it's morning again in America", you're a child. You don't have an actual argument. You have an infantile fantasy about political theater mattering more than governance itself. You're not the solution to any actual problem. You're the problem in that you think our nation is a talk show and your feelings matter more than real issues. Snap out of it. Save the Camus when you have a good joint to smoke. The rest of us need you to help tug the ship of state in our direction. What else are you doing that's so important?

"There are lies we all tell".
Thanks For confirming what Ruben and I said.
Bill and Hillary and many other Pols lie or only provide full disclosure when presented with the facts.
I never said Hillary was the biggest liar and I certainly think Carly and the Bush Brothers are "bigger" liars.
Regarding Boehner, he is a Pol and a human so he must be a liar. But he is a person I think I could have a cup of coffee with as is Sanders. I do not consider Sanders a Gadfly but a guy that is helping push Hillary left. He will not be the Democratic nominee but I think he would as president be more like Obama as Hillary will be more like McCain. Soleri regarding Camus in his bio I have yet to determine he did weed and I am still a illegal drug virgin. I will leave the Mary Jane to You as I think it like LSD helps with writing. "ANIMATRONIC"?
Keep coming back I enjoy the word wars and I learn at least one new word a day.

Speaking of the Super intellects and profound wordsmiths that frequent here, scroll right and click on the ever clever mind of Petro and his
A good piece on the dangers of Sanders and Trunp.


Nixon was a more obvious liar that Bill Clinton? Who was impeached, disbarred, and cost Al Gore the Presidency when he looked the American people in the eye and let us all know that he did not have sex with that woman?

Once again, you've somehow gotten close to accurate when you write that we need someone to make the process work.


Hillary Clinton?

You want to know the REAL over/ under on Hillary? The stake in her heart? The one reason that no sane person should think she could be trusted?

She's appointed Secretary of State. She's clearly setting up a run for the White House. She's smart. Her team is smart. She knows what a Presidential campaign looks like. The microscopes. The shining lights. The vetting. The media snooping around for ANYTHING, like jackals.

And her and her team decide that her emails are going on a personal server, giving her a veto over anything that might be in them. She'd be able to circumvent any inquiry.

32,000 deleted emails.

And then, when the you know what hits the fan, she exercises that veto.

32,000 deleted emails.

The good news is, though, that in one of the multitude of lawsuits surrounding the issue, the State Department has only taken about 5 years to deliver the emails.

I can't imagine the naivete of someone who would defend that. The blindness. The partisanship. The foolishness. The ignorance. The inability to see reality.

She can't be that stupid. No one can.

Inphx, but given the current candidates she's the best man for the job.
But my heart goes out to the revolutionary Jose Mujica.

Cal, I'm still not sure why Hillary is a "liar". Give me some examples so I can think about them.

From my point of view, Hillary is a realist, the highest compliment I can pay a public figure. Bernie is an idealist, which is nice but doesn't necessarily accomplish anything. Because we live in a world where entertainments like The West Wing make us think soaring rhetoric can change hearts and minds, we tend to think electing the "right person" will suddenly change Washington, the culture, and even us.

It won't. If we work hard, settle for partial victories, and then work hard again, we can push this country in a direction that is more rational, more pro-active, and less cruel. But we can't do that if we think a messiah is the answer. Bernie has a great message precisely because he doesn't have to figure out how it all happens with a crazy Congress and a divided electorate. Hillary does have to consider that. A rational politician doesn't overpromise for that reason.

I don't love Hillary, and I definitely don't love her Neocon flirtations, but what will keep her from McCain-level insanity is her party's base. We won't tolerate that level of hawkishness. On the other hand, she'll thread the needle and pretend she'll always put American first (!!!!). Because she has to. Because our country is full of anxious people who think bad things will pop out from swarthy skin intent of murdering Baby Jesus in his manger. Hillary, in other words, will have to fake it enough to keep the rubes in Ohio thinking she'll nuke any sand nigger who threatens Murica! That's the price we exact on any woman, particularly a liberal, who would lead us.

I know I'm not telling you what you want to hear. I'm telling, I think, what is real. Hillary is our best bet.

And still more about Carly:

INPHX, yeah, I suppose Hillary was dumb not to anticipate your team's utterly desperate attempt to smear her with a big nothing burger, just like it did with Benghazi, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Travelgate, etc. Wait a minute. She knew your side is bonkers, so why worry about it? If the only crap you have on Hillary is shit you make up and then scream about like howler monkeys drunk on moonshine, why even bother worrying about it? Since she's been cleared, as she's been cleared before of your side's manufactured scandals, she might as well take it all in stride. 46% of the nation will never vote for her because of these fake scandals. She's very aware that they'll never stop because your side has so little interest in truth or basic fairness.

Bill's lie about his private life didn't quite reach the level of Richard Nixon's systemic Constitutional abuse. Impeachment, once again, was an ENTIRELY partisan affair, and even it's origin was based in a partisan witchhunt (Whitewater), which cost $70 million and uncovered nothing except the Worst Thing to Happen to America since The Progressive Income Tax. Bill was at over 60% approval when the Senate voted down your putsch. Nixon was around 26%, proof that most Americans are not nearly so insane as Republicans wish they were. Your party of obnoxious hypocrites and sanctimonious blowhards did suffer Gingrich's and Livingston's defenestrations, thankfully. Self-inflicted wounds are the natural outcome for an utterly despicable political party.

And let's not forget that when Nixon was forced to resign, the GOP was still a mass American political party, not the radical robotic machine it has become. A pivotal moment was when Sens. Barry Goldwater and Hugh Scott, and Rep. John Rhodes, went to the White House to tell Nixon it was over, he had lost the support of even his party. Such a thing never happened with the war criminals Bush and Cheney.

Hillary is the best choice. Sanders is the Democratic old white hippy and student vote which won't carry the election day.

Any Republican president would have to swing so far to the right to appease the extremist base. Domestic budget cuts to make INPHX proud would be totally eroded by the additional trillions pissed down the mad bomber McCain rat hole of military adventures.

You're a fiscal conservative? Don't vote Republican.

Soleri, I'm not arguing about who is the best choice given the choices. As I thought you and I agreed we all are liars.
I believe omission is very close to lying. And Hillary like most seems to not be forth coming as soon as would seem to be more ethical, to me. But then Most Pols are like that. There are many instances in which Hillary and most pols get accused of lying. I do some research for some that seem accurate and get back to U. But for starters "How she came to be named Hillary. Reminds me of Duke Tully and his Airforce costume.
And i know Sanders is an old hippy. So what's wrong with that. And it's obvious he so far does nor have what Obama had to take our Hillary.

Commments about Hillary and her alleged profiting from questionable deals (i.e. Whitewater, Commodities, etc.) I would much prefer to be aligned with someone who came out a winner and profited rather than a loser who did not. She may be a liar and a corrupt politician (is there any other kind?)
Her "lies" did not cost many American lives or billions of dollars.

AND for how the GOP plans on taking out Hillary try David Brock book.

Cal, I agree "lying" is something we all do but you can still be a fairly trustworthy actor in Washington if others feel your word is good. The opposite of a trustworthy actor would probably be Ted Cruz, who is universally despised in the US Senate. He's clearly his own one-man wrecking crew, which he uses to burnish his anti-establishment cred. Carly Fiorina is widely unpopular among people who worked with her, which suggests she's another freelancer exploiting others for her own ends. She wants to be vice-president, but the negative publicity around her H-P tenure will likely scuttle that plan. Bernie Sanders has very few allies in the Democratic caucus because he's a purist. By the end of his career, Joe Lieberman had few friends among the Democrats. In ancient history, Eugene McCarthy was widely disliked by Democrats for his freelancing. Others who have worn out at least some of their welcome among teammates: Alexander Haig, Sarah Palin, Nelson Rockefeller, Ed Koch, Jim Webb, and close to home, Krysten Sinema and John McCain.

From all accounts, Hillary keeps her fences in good repair. This quality, rather than absolute veracity (which is, mostly, a right-wing mind-fuck anyway) is the standard you should pay attention to. The real reason Hillary gives out a bad vibe is that she's engaged in logrolling, which is a political art but a public relations nightmare. She also hedges her bets in a very public way. She seldom if ever exposes herself to potentially hazardous positions (Iraq, gay marriage, Wall Street regulation, et al). What is the key principle in all this? Survival. I would assume, as an example, that most Republican officals know climate change is real. But they dare not offend their know-nothing constituents with that opinion. Why should they? What good can you do if you're primaried out of office? The next guy might well be be genuinely crazy.

I've said this a hundred times in the last few weeks, but one more time: realism is not popular among most people. "Politicians are lying bastards!" is its most typical expression, except politicians are really a reflection of us and our often contradictory impulses. The drive to purify politicians of their human stain seems noble on its face but it's really a bad idea. That's one reason why I would just as soon see politicians bring back pork barrel spending. It's a touch of the real world in the ideological carnival that Washington has increasingly become.

Anybody (Phxsunfan) read Jeff Biggers book
State out of the Union?
an interesting read.

January 2017
and the president of
the so NOT United States is,
Thee Best Liar.

Nixon: "I have a secret plan to end the war." The secret of course is that he sabotaged the peace talks as a private citizen. I helped make him prez, but he presided over 10s of k more american deaths and 100s of ks of vietnamese, and dessatbilized the rest of SE Asia. Now THAT's a lie. Compare with "Idis not have sex with that woman." I could give many more (contrasting) examples. Jimmy Carter piously said, "I will not lie to you," (not?) realizing that at times it's part of the job.

I had a rule with informants when I was a cop. If it's a lie do not say anything. As once they lied their credibility as an informant was gone And I didn't want to be a cop that was found to be relying on lies. I was told by some fellow officers that I "Was too Honest".
I recall that i arrested a large drug dealer that gave me two cases on people he sold too. And then tried to lie about it.
I refused to work with him. He became a DEA informant and a few years later he and his DEA handler were arrested at a US east coast international airport on a flight from Columbia in possession of a large quantity of illegal drugs.
So if a Politcian says nothing is that a lie?

One thing to remember about Vietnam is that Nixon and Kissinger knew it was a lost cause but they wanted a "decent interval" between the American pullout and the eventual victory by North Vietnam. All the lives that were lost and treasure wasted went, essentially, to an exercise in image management for the American Empire.

The empire is fundamental to the profound lie about American democracy. Anyone who would be president, including Bernie Sanders, will have to bow to the Deep State, that amalgam of the Pentagon, intelligence agencies, and the various think tanks that mediate the empire's rationale to the rest of us. It's easily confused with patriotism.

This fundamental, existential lie partly explains why politicians, in turn, necessarily lie to us. For most of us, the lie is so finely woven that you can't even tell it's there. It's the air we breathe. And yet it's also the reason our politics is rife with cynicism since the lie about democracy is now naked before our eyes. Bernie Sanders probably is referring to this when he calls for a "political revolution". If he seems at times downcast, you can understand why. Even he can't utter the word that would explain US to us. We are born into a lie and spend our lives breathing it, day in, day out.

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