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August 27, 2015

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Ask only one question-

Can Sanders, as the nominee, win Illinois, New York, California and Florida?

If he can, he's got a shot.

INPHX, see my update. I don't see how he can win Florida.

The GOP has more of a shot at Colorado and Nevada than it does at Pennsylvania. It has been reliably even after it's legislature gerrymandered the state, which went for Obama at +5 while electing a congressional delegation that has 13 Republicans and only 5 Democrats. Plus it has a big Senate race this year with Toomey seeking re-election. That will further boost turnout.
Bernie's base is white liberals like me. That's the majority of Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire. But that diminishes mire and more in all the other states. They make up just a third of Louisiana's Democrats, for instance. He might start strong, but Hillary is primed to go the distance.

"Waiting for demographic deliverance is going to be long"...Yes, Mother Nature is slow. "Hispanics have abysmal voter turnout"...If current events don't get them involved then they deserve what they get, just like the white working class did.

Bloomberg 2016

And one other thing, if you aren't getting any laughs out of the Trump campaign, well, I guess I don't know what to think of that. I am a pretty serious guy (some say humorless) and I think he is a riot.

Great follow up RC.

INPHX: Obama took Illinois by 17 points, New York by 27 and California by 23. I don't see how any Democrat would lose them. It will come down, as always, to half a dozen battleground states and turnout.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party's fortunes are directly tied to the "abysmal voter turnout" of the Latino community as a whole. Until and/or unless something shifts (more than gradually) to provoke this block into actually registering and voting, the white right will continue to keep pace and will continue to use Latinos as the whipping boy du jour. (This is SO evident in Arizona, especially Maricopa County.)

Greg:

I think you're right.

My point was that if you think the States i mentioned are even in play, then Bernie's a no.

How to capture the interest that Sanders brings, branding it Blue and telling him bye-bye while keeping him not only in the tent, but a strong endorser. What can he get into the platform? That's about it, and its why I mentioned McGovern in the last thread. GMc was so much closer to the mainstream than Bernie, and got marginalized as dangerous leftie. Eagleton and other flubs contributed to the avalanche, but the country's still going to reject anyone suspected of being on the left fringe. The Right? It seems to get a pass on this count.

I’m all for practical men prognosticating the probable performance of political outcomes. There’s a place for that - the media love horse-racing the shit out of these things like they’re just another circus to go with our daily bread. Nate Silver is the shit. And “the art of the possible” has been hot-branded into our psyches like wisdom from God.

I wonder what the usefulness of all that is, however, when it gets down to trying to really engage with the direction of one’s country in a nominal democracy. Like I say, I understand the predilections of practical men - but sometimes when they are displaying their weary wisdom it seems that they are also trying desperately to wet-down any serious progress.

I’m all for throwing ones body into the gears, to fight for the impossible, to... hold on there. No, I’m all for being able to advocate for, to fight for, those vision with which I am aligned.

If I am going to constantly be told that my vision of the future is so unrealistic that I am just foolish and immature to stand up and say “YES!” when a socialist - “Social Democrat” or otherwise - wades into the fray, then it seems to me that those who make such insistence have no real respect for choice in democracy.

This country is hog-tied with a two-party system that constantly throws up the same-old same-old (and do not nickel-and-dime me to death with these incremental differences in the approach to not-actually-public-health-care, etc.,) and it is precisely these wise old cynics in the media that are doing the handiwork of entrenched power.

#Occupy did not die. #Occupy diverted into local actions - buying old mortgages and other things that don’t make the red/blue balloons explode into glittery political excitement. They lie in wait. I cannot say how certain it may be that the country will feel their weight before they fall victim to the same young-adulthood distractions that wiped out the ‘60‘s youth, but I’ll be goddamned if I’m going to listen to statisticians break down state-by-state electoral possibilities who seem to think that their diligence gives them the right to demoralize the dreamers who are trying to change things.

Bernie’s too old. He should fucking win anyway. He should do a daring, four-year I-know-I’m-gonna-piss-too-many-people-off to run or even survive for a second term. He might not be that guy. But Hillary and sure-as-fuck noone in the GOP is, either.

Well, it looks like Hillary had a move.

Bernie Sanders, if he somehow won the Democratic nomination, would be a a jolt of electricity to a sclerotic political system. If nothing else, he would energize young people in a way no conventional politician ever could. But he would also energize a reaction from the right which would be even more passionate. The campaign against him would be devastating. He would be compared to Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Fidel Castro, and Ho Chi Minh. It would not be pretty.

Conventional political parties buffer the middle against the extremes. That fact would not help Bernie since he is not really a Democrat. He would be the insurgent in a party that has assiduously kept its distance from people just like him. Being the outsider might mean he's pure but it would also mean he was exposed exactly in the same places he was most exciting. His greatest strength would become his greatest weakness.

I assume Bernie could win the Democratic strongholds like New York, California, New England, and possibly even Florida (lots of former New Yorkers would swamp the polls). But, he would lose battleground states like Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, Nevada, Wisconsin, and maybe even Minnesota. I cannot see him surviving the Blitzkrieg mounted against him.

Political parties are no better than the nation they serve. This means our cynicism and fatigue weaken them. But institutions are also bulwarks against our fickle natures. We think we can finesse our human condition with enthusiasm. Unfortunately, that has an extremely short shelf life as Occupy showed. Institutions, for better or worse, can flatten out the extremes of our emotions even as they whip up and channel less volatile passions.

Our job as liberal citizens who care about this country is to push the Overton Window to the left. We can do that with people like Bernie but that in itself doesn't mean Bernie is a messiah. He is an excellent communicator, of course. He can instruct people but he can't leverage his wisdom for the sake of power. We call people like Bernie saints precisely because they're not contaminated by this fallen world. He's almost like Gandhi in this respect. His power is transformative only to the degree it changes our hearts.

I like your comment, soleri, and your assessment is useful to me in my thinking, thank you.

I'd only make an aside to say that enthusiasm, while short-lived, does some useful work in that Overton Window-pushing business. :)

Great stuff.

I'm with Petro! Keeping hoping that the farce that is Capitalism (the very definition of insanity -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result) will fix our ills is a losing proposition. Gandhi managed a win over one of the cruelist Colonial powers that ever ruled India. It should be a walk in the park for Sanders. No one is saying he's a messiah, he's a couple of years older than Clinton, and he's no Eugene V. Debs. It's change or same old, same old. Choose your poison.

Petro- I agree generally. I'd love to see Sanders in the White House. But...
On the one hand He will appeal to a lot of people who have never heard anything like his ideas and policies. That assumes that they listen to him without a lot of filtering.
My index voter is a cafeteria cashier where I work. Another guy and I in line were chatting about the ACA which was coming up for a vote. She heard us and said, "I was against it, but then I found out my daughter would finally get coverage! It seems like a good thing."
On the other hand, he will face a sleaze machine, that thanks to Citizens United, will be rove, Atwater, chotiner et al on steroids. My index of public gullibility and media failure is 2004. A bonafied war hero was running against a military service dodger and the valences got almost completely reversed- swift boating and IBM selectric kerning ( with a flight suit landing on an aircraft carrier. mission accomplished, indeed.) that's what our man Bernie will face in spades. The investigators are out in the field in New York, Chicago and Burlington as we speak.
One thing about Hillary is that I'm pretty sure it's all out there, and she's still standing.
What a way to pick a President.

You right, Dawgzy.

Bernie's swift-boating will the conflation of Communism (specifically, Communist dictatorship) with his plain "social Democrat" stance. We'll see how this plays, one hopes.

"Bernie's swift-boating will the conflation..."

~Just Editing Myself

And that didn't work. Pfff. You all can see my intent. Like I need to clarify shit for this crew. ;D

Could Bernie be the next humble Jose Mujica? We gotta get him a Rainbow colored 62 VW Bus and a three legged dog!
AND SOLERI keep writing with the same emotional intensity. So U expose some fissures in your being I would hate to see you stifle the beauty of your scribbling. So alluding to someone as a comb over narsassitic is ok with me. As has been pointed out Ruben and are are Old JERKS.

possible club coffee in late September, early October. Note Urban Bean is now open 24 hours. If you are interested please email me at coper1658@gmail.com

America no longer subscribes to white Protestant values as the governing ethos-or any other ethos, so we are no longer a family, culturally speaking. We are guided by 'Do your own thing,' the libertarian clarion call for the unfettered pursuit of individuality, be that artistic recognition or heaps of money.

In a balkanized country when a citizen closes the curtain in a voting booth they don't care about equality. What they do care about is fairness or 'equal' sacrifice.

After WWII everyone knew everyone was equally dead, everyone with a rifle was equally deadly. People recognized their sacrifices made them equals. That's why in the 50s they were willing to pay taxes, build universities, parks, try to save world, and eliminate unfair advantages-in the workplace for example.

You can revel in differences and individualism and making everyone equal. Just don't ask citizens to pay taxes for community initiatives or the social commons-like they did in the 50s when a sense of fairness laid the groundwork for the 60s.

When Bernie Sanders avoids equality issues, as he is being accused of, he's aiming for a workable solution for making sacrifices to move the country ahead. Framing the narrative around shared sacrifices instead of the old equality of outcomes is what the Democrats need to do to capture the broad swath of people voting for the libertarians.

It could be what people are looking for, a leader who is willing to ask people to make sacrifices for the greater good. What was it that Kennedy said, “Ask...

Call me a dreamer, but I think Latinos will vote like never before. I think the tide is turning for the plutocrats, and I think Bernie does have a chance. People are disgusted with establishment politics, their children's student debt with no professional work, and their own stagnant place in society.
Only one candidate is expressing that well. Bernie would never garner Tea Party votes anyway, but he's attracting damn big crowds that include disaffected Dems like me and Independents like my husband and kids. And I hate to sound absolute, but if not Bernie, America will never change, and Americans can kiss whatever's left of Democracy goodbye.

Cal, when you flirt with waitresses 1/3 your age, it's cal by yourself.

But when you get called a jerk then it's ruben and me?

I feel like Tonto, kimosabe.

I'll try for October coffee.

Hi yo silv"................sorry that's your line.

Patricia, I share your fear about American democracy but one person is not going to save it. In other words, Bernie is not Jesus. We don't elect kings or messiahs even if most Americans invest the president with magical powers. The best Bernie can do is illuminate the devastation in our public lives and what it's costing us. Half this nation will continue to vote for the oligarchy anyway based on nothing more serious than skin color. An election is not going to change this. Anyone who is capable of a considered opinion needs to maintain faith in the process itself. Apocalyptic scenarios are fun but we shouldn't be too eager to make them substitute for the hard work of ordinary politics. As EM Forster would say, "only connect".

I went to the Home Depot and Lowes websites and neither of them carry the Overton window. Should I try Ace hardware?


(You guys with the big brains, do you have trouble finding hats? I'm always impressed by all that stuff you store up there.)

Ruben U should get some Overton Glasses made by Google. Everything you can see is White and they record every second of your life. They are only available online and only cost $200000. Since your in the high risk insurance business I know you an afford them and can insure them against seeing colors other than white.
PS TONTO U is buying the coffee. I'll have a Moreno mocha, thank you.

The Hohokams:
PHXSUNFAN. Buy The Opatas book by the UA proffesor and turn to page 21 second paragraph.

No, Rogue, nooooooo!

After years of increasing disaffection, I arrived at the conclusion that my vote simply makes no difference . . . then Bernie Sanders announced his run for President.

Soleri, Sanders speaks often about how he cannot, as one person, make the changes needed for our country, but can help to focus a political revolution.

Bernie Sanders may or may not win the nomination, but I will not be suckered again into voting for a Wall Street Democrat.

Patricia hit the nail on the head: Our democracy is on its last legs.

Thanks everyone for the Bernie stuff. After much thought and i love Bernie too feeling i have concluded like Carter he lacks one qualification in this Corrupt Roman empire. The KILLER instinct.

Watching the video of the crowd watching the take down of Osama bin Laden. It was obvious from the facial and body language of Obama that he was having great difficulty whereas I think I saw a satisfied look of accomplishment on Hillary's face.

You can do the math here, if you want:
http://www.270towin.com

I can't imagine Bernie winning Florida, but could you have imagined Obama winning it in 2012? Or Colorado, or New Mexico, or Virginia? Bernie needs the southern black and the El Norte latino vote to win, and if he can somehow energize them, he will win. He doesn't need much; a Trump nomination by the GOP could well do it.

No to political oligarchy, no to a Wall Street Democrat, no to Hilary- but no to Trump above all. Biden may change the equation entirely.

Biden!?! Aaaaarrrrgh!

What does Mr. Sanders have in common with those 5 math questions from a 8th grade test the NYT is running today?

http://nyti.ms/1LGd5bR

3 of the 5 questions are arcane geometry problems. Why are we still teaching this geometry cruft? I would argue it is because geometry has been at the core of western civilization educational practice since the Greeks. It's buried deep in our core intellectual DNA, and we just can't let the crap go. Even though it is nearly useless today...

Similarly buried in our core intellectual DNA is the puritan ethic. And those puritan work ethic genes are precisely why Mr. Sanders -- a socialist from Vermont -- has no chance of winning the party's nomination.

All that being said I am glad Mr. Sanders is in the race and is pushing the spectrum to the left. He is providing some balance to the ever expanding Overton window on the right.

And there is this:

Mr. Sanders defeat will make Mrs. Clinton an even stronger candidate in the general election. She'll beat Mr. Sanders from the center, and will be well-planted there. The Republican candidate will have to do a frantic "etch-a-sketch" to try to regain the middle ground lost in winning the primaries.

That's always a tough sell...


Is the Overton window single pain or dual pain?

Get it?

Right now, it's overuse is getting to be a real pain.

Bernie 2016/2020

Jon: You know I love Bernie. I went to see him at the Brattleboro Heifer Walk in June. Vermont loves him, I love Vermont. But it is a small state with an easy retail political scene. Once you get into the national league for big boys reality sets in. That's where the Clinton LLC shines. They are just used to grifting enormous amount of cash. Cash for their campaigns, cash for their foundation slush funds etc. Same for the GOPers. The gubmint is for and by the wealthy. I spent decades representing USA USA at embassies around the world before I realized what a fraud this country and its democracy really is. People are pissed for sure. Thus Trump and Bernie to a smaller degree so far. But those that run this country will continue to without let up.

However, I disagree that Hilliary is qualified. Compared to the GOP clown car, yes, for the most part. But she was a nothing senator and a bad secstate. The migrant situation is a direct result of her assistance in overthrowing Kadaffi, Bengazi was nothing. South Sudan was her baby too. Do we really need eight more years of emails and clinton speech cash flow questions etc, while the country continues down the toilet. Sad that we cannot do better than what we see, her included. Bernie is great, a real person, helped Vermont for years. But USA USA wants a reality show, thus Trump. The democrats need to cull the gop-lites like clinton before any progress can be made. Not happening anytime soon unfortunately. Give me 4 of the GOP rather than 8 of Clintoons LLC.

Decades in US embassies to realize the fraudulent nature of the US government. Those TS security clearances and entry level FS indoctrination programs do serve their purpose.

I don't like the Democratic Party much- but in this case the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Especially when unprecedented amounts of money will be going for not just ads but PR and perception management ( to which Americans are TOO susceptible) I'll go with HRC as the strategic option. I hate to say it, but "we" are playing defense now.
Again , having the choice over and over of the lesser of two evils leaves us only with the evil of two lessers. I get it that a lot of people will refuse to play this game. I won't blame them.
Trump is popular because he says outright what a lot of people think, but feel they can't say. Eventually as the nominations play out, HRC needs to work the disaffected Left candidly so that we don't perceived that we're just left behind. It would be refreshing to hear her say this simply and clearly- sorry, but the enemy's at the gate and I'm all ya got, but I appreciates y'all.

Yes, the enemy is at the gate. And, once again, the Democratic party assumes the Progressives will fall into line and turn out to vote for Wall Street's bought-and-paid-for Democratic candidate.

Not this time.

This is not the thread that you were looking for.

Thread? OK Mike explain that as i am I missing the needle point?

Thread? OK Mike explain that as i am I missing the needle point?

cal, I was just "jabbing" (see what I did there?) Jon because I don't think he expected to see such a tolerance for Bernie in the overall discussion.

(I could be wrong about that - both about Talton's expectations and about just how pro-Bernie this "thread of comments" actually is. I suffer from bias, of course.)

Off topic but... When I was a kid (yawn) any national recognition of Phoenix seemed like a personal affirmation. I was disappointed when Horace Heidt, a bandleader who broadcast on TV from different cities every week, did his show from Tucson. My ongoing interest in Sun Devils football is a piece of this. So my inner 11 year old was pleased to see the transit tax passage mentioned by Atrios in Eschaton. http://www.eschatonblog.com/2015/08/moar-taxes.html

But she (Hillary) was a nothing senator and a bad secstate. The migrant situation is a direct result of her assistance in overthrowing Kadaffi, Bengazi was nothing. South Sudan was her baby too.

Interesting that you apparently don't think the Moslems deserve any blame at all for their f***ed up world. It's all on Mrs. Clinton and the USA isn't it?

Why if we would just get out of the way, I bet the Shite would lay down with the Sunni and all would be kosher....

Tell me, when those Americans clubbed that poor Fundy Muslim on the train with his own rifle, did it irk you that they knocked him unconscious? Do you think he should sue for excessive abuse?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Ruben: I actually didn't read up thread when I wrote that about the Overton window. Now I see your point. But it doesn't change anything. Here's another reason why:

Poor people and the middle class can't even afford a home in Vermont. Socialist Bernie is from one of the most costly states to live in the country. Property taxes are enormous. Real estate is for the only top 1-2%.

Good luck packaging those fact together with his socialism. His national campaign wouldn't have an ounce of honest bite. His limo would be swift-boated faster than Dukakis's tank and Kerry's ride. Quite simply, there's no way the Dem Party is going to shoot itself in both feet like that again. One Dukakis/McGovern/Kerry is enough.

In short:

Bernie is a pipe dream. If there was a way to short his stock, I'd sell my hypothetical bed and breakfast in Vermont to go all in on that action.

koreyel, the funny thing is...

Even a Sanders supporter like myself (for whatever that's worth) can acknowledge the slim chances that he faces.

So, while many of us are prepared to accept what "the art of the possible" throws up to us, there are some of us who use our cynicism to run down the candidate himself, and others of us who feel that Bernie Sanders is plain-talking some plain-facts.

Kind of like Trump, but with a little more thinky, and a little less goosestep.

It's an irony that when there's a candidate who promotes state socialism ( among other things) on a national stage, he emerges from a political boutique. It kinda makes sense. what you say about Vermont is the last thing that will hurt him. " gee, if I'm such a bandito, why did all of those rich people vote for me? Here's why, etc." there are folks who recognize and care about the contradiction that you point out, koreyel, but we're long in the tooth. I hope that he's seen as a unicorn or some other interesting exotic, and that those curious folks gazing at him absorb some of what he's saying in the process. " gee, he's different somehow, but I like what he says."

Bernie could be president of the planet earth. For the common cause. But if you think the 5000 folks that run the planet and thier neocon lackeys are going to stand for that, guess again. It's the Hunger Games only the bad guys win. Neocons are also supported by your CIA big dogs and thier equivilent a agencies in England, Russia and so on. Will the Bildenbergs accept Putin's application. Not likely he is from the lower caste.

A wrench in the power system is the current world migration (survival) problem. Will be interesting, likely deadly, to see how it gets handled. Maybe off planet miners?

Talking Peace and harmony.
In the road of the financial powers, your history!
Lincoln, Gandhi, MLK, JFK, Bobbie and thousands of others. Violence Rules.

Last night I watched Clinton give a speech on Cspan at the DNC Summer HillaryFest. Bill Clinton gave some pretty mesmerizing speeches, but Hillary isn't Bill, and she could do herself a favor by dropping the rock star act. She's not a southern charismatic like Bill (thank God) and all of the faux populist outrage doesn't wear well on her at all; and she should avoid following Lincoln Chaffee, who is a completely likeable fellow who has actually done some honest work (with his hands!) in his life, even if he does seem to be the DNC's "one who must not be taken seriously" in this campaign cycle (they tried with Sanders, but it didn't take.)

You know I thought about moving to Vermont.
Liberal bastion and all that...
But the property taxes are crippling on a fixed income.
Esp. if you plan on living a long while...

Interesting thought, consider this equality:

Exorbitant property taxes = country club fees

What you call "state socialism" looks mighty exclusionary. Just wondering: How many black people live in Vermont?


Home ownership in Vermont is 71% (v.65% for the USA).

All of New England has ridiculously high property tax. I have a feeling its because of the black market for labor and goods in NE (quite a few people "work off the books"), but there is always the corruption angle too.

Hilliary is now backed by Monsanto and the private prison industry. Yeah, that's want America wants.

Property taxing is such an injustice. I swoon.

Hillary is now backed by Monsanto...

Is that supposed to make critical thinking adults wring their hands in consternation? Sounds good to me. Hope they gave her millions.

Here's a question:

Which group is more harmful to the future health and comfort of humanity:

• The anti-science left which knee jerk opposes genetically modified crops?

• Or the anti-science right which knee jerk opposes fetal cell research?

I think I'll go with the top one.

As the ability to engineer roots that fix nitrogen from the soil, or sop up heavy metals for land remediation, or grow leaves that repel bugs and so need less pesticides, or yield grains that turn rice golden hold enormous possibilities for making a better future for everyone.

That's why GM is going to happen, despite St. Bernie's throng of hippies-- privileged bellies full of expensive organic food -- protesting against it.

Knee jerk opposition to GM crops is more than mere fruitloopery. It's like running around during a small pox outbreak shouting that vaccination is dangerous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice


Koreyel,
I think he was referring to monsanto's genetically engineered $100 bills. You know , the ones with bill and Hilary's face on them

If they build a wall along the Canadian border, would it be spelled

W. A. Double hockey sticks ?

Koreyel u think smallpox vaccine was a good deal?

When the religious End Time lift off comes may they take with them the technocrats (and the neocons) that continue to increase the rapidity of earth's destruction. Hope your new planet works for all you techno nuts that think "manunkind" can be saved through more and "better" technology and Jihadists religious philosophy.
Maybe an off planet Ducey all petroleum made ice cream store?
Reminds me of the Popsicle Kings story by Sam Quinones. So tonite I'll read Tales of Mexico.
I think Jared Diamond was right. " The downfall of man began with the advent of agriculture.

Cal, I think it's just that you don't like people and change.

I don't think that is particularly harmful either. If we didn't have people that questioned progress, be it technological/scientific or even social, then we would blindly follow corporations and majority rule into unknown dangers. We need some form of opposition, even if it is wrong, in order to question invention and possible negative externalities. Many of which may be dangerous or fatal.

For example, we need the organic food option as a sample group and as a contingency option in case GMO turns out to be as dangerous (e.g. carcinogenic) as some believe.

The recent voter turnout was abysmal.

I'm not used to being an optimist, but my 25% guess was wildly optimistic.

I was in favor of the transit deal, in theory, since it will not impact my life at all.

However, a single digit portion of the electorate just imposed a thirty year tax on 100% of the population.

So apathy leads to taxation without representation?

Good. They deserve it.

Humans fiddling with the genetic makeup of our food supply and living organisms. What could possibly go wrong?

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/blogs/five-things-monsanto-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-gmos/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw9o-vBRCO0OLi2PfPkI8BEiQA8pdF4PtviP7CVAv5oT3D8RTQW9uyCsYjZlr9ulukeysNziEaAlrM8P8HAQ

Another article from a different angle:

http://modernfarmer.com/2014/03/monsantos-good-bad-pr-problem/

Bottom line: betting the farm that a corporation (or their puppet) has our best interests at heart is a loosing bet.

The Planet earth without people?

"However, a single digit portion of the electorate just imposed a thirty year tax on 100% of the population.

So apathy leads to taxation without representation?" -Ruben Perez

It is estimated that 18-19% of the electorate (registered Phoenix voters) participated in this election. This is lower than the normal 20-25% for off year elections but definitely not a single digit participation rate.
http://ktar.com/story/597345/phoenix-election-saw-lower-than-usual-voter-turnout/

Sorry for no new post. Sick day.

CPPierce has resonant piece up today http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a37542/dnc-chairperson/

Kind of looks like Rinse Prewash and Washerman Shitz are symptoms of two cancerous, malignant, rotting political parties.

Jon, I get that you want to analyze elections. But it just seems pretty obvious that you're overlooking the voters... and the relationship between the voters and the candidate(s). Those would be among the factors that will come into play that you just don't seem to be interested in.

AE,
You're pretty savvy about AZ politics.

There is a " relationship" between Cathy herrod and Ducey and az legislators et al.

Now, please explain this " relationship" with voters, of which you speak, that you feel is important.

There is no relationship with voters. There is only a desire to mislead, misinform and mistreat them once political office has been achieved.

Rinse Prewash! Too funny. Thanks Ruben.

538's main story today:

In particular, Sanders has shown little sign of winning over votes from African-Americans or Hispanics, which would limit his growth as the race moves on to more racially diverse states.

St. Bernie of the upper white middle class liberal society. That is the 2-5 percenters who loathe the 1 percenters, and have created a property tax structure that excludes the rest of the middle class from living in their states.

He's not a senator from Vermont by accident...


@Cal: I think I sense what you are hinting at. No small pox vaccine without fetal tissue samples. So there is a strong case to be made that the anti-science on the right is equally as evil. Aside: way off topic, but when I read this I thought you might enjoy it too:

http://tucson.com/news/local/neto-s-tucson-a-woman-s-view-of-the-border/article_1391555d-57a2-538d-840e-2befd9b09822.html

Thanks Koreyel, for the Tucson article. Peg Bowden is a friend of mine. She is also the Sister of my deceased writer friend Charles Bowden.

New Hampshire and Alaska are the only states not to have a sales tax or income tax.

AZEagletarian & Ruben, the relationship between voters and candidates has broken down, because, for all intents and purposes, the candidates are "pre-chosen" for the voters. GoldmanSachs likes both Jeb! and HRC; what the voters say makes no difference . . . and the parties are complicit in the process of misleading and misinforming.

As far as I can tell, Bernie Sanders is not beholden to anyone but the working man and woman. Maybe that is why people are willing to listen to him.

koreyel, you might want to take what you read in the NYT and 538 with just a little grain of salt. They're solidly behind HRC, they've put their blinders on, and have consistently and notably failed to report on Sanders . . . other than to mention Marx whenever possible.

Well, Bernie is not Jose but there is a resemblance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica

phxsunfan, I actually do like a few people. But I do not go to Costco on Saturday or a mall on the weekend. Best group is me and one more. I prefer no more than five and me as my Chrome 6 inch Colt Python only holds six.
Change, I am for Change, no more humans. I like Natures changes left unencumbered by "manunkind". I am still a believer (since 58) of Malthus.

Cal, I promise to behave at any future coffee gatherings.

Didn't know you were packing.

I just thought you were excited to see me.

Ruben R U reading my emails? I sent you a reading list.
I expect you to be conversant on Van Dyke, The Desert, Edward Abbeys, Desert Solitare and if U didn't understand Resist Much Obey Little by Abbey, Petro will clarify for U.
The Colt belongs to Jon Mapstone. I just store it for him until he gets into town. U know just for that Day, when a Trump like AZ real estate developer goes whacko. Personally I'm a model 33 Glock dude. With a 3 inch Chrome model 19 for a backup.

Yes sir. Will do. Just to be clear, are we talking Dick Van Dyke?

Ruben, this made me laugh a lot, "There is no relationship with voters. There is only a desire to mislead, misinform and mistreat them once political office has been achieved."

cR-AZy

Even if Bernie does manage to win by some amazing miracle, would he not be stonewalled at every turn and neutralized worse than Jimmy Carter? Getting elected is only the first hurdle.

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