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September 22, 2014


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Well, two minutes before Jon posted this I posted the Longest war on US history on the Great war blog.

And Sal and the Goldwater institute Randians are trying to destroy past and current fire fighters and police pensions. If they have there way a person that retired 24 years ago will lose their retirement. And Phoenix cops only get one third of their social security. The ballot issue is proposition 487 which just happens to be police code for theft. What Sal and his crowd really mean is 451 of police and fire unions. 451 is police code for murder.

Jon -
Let me tell you where I'm at.
I'm a registered Republican, but I take pride in being moderate.
Ducey bugs me. I know this sounds trite, but his Primary campaign ad promises of making sure American History is taught in High School strikes me as entirely missing the point (and redundant, since US history is already required).
I haven't ever voted D in a statewide election, but I feel legitimately split on this one.
You stated that DuVal is superior in every way. Maybe in a future piece, you could speak to an audience of people like me - those who are maybe more aligned with East Coast Republicans than East Valley Republicans. I am entirely unfamiliar with DuVal, so his uphill battle is that he's the devil I don't know (and I've never voted D in a statewide race). But I'd love to see something from you about why moderate Republicans (at least moderate for AZ) should vote DuVal.

Michael, the odds that one party would have all the correct choices on a ballot is astronomical. If you voted R on your whole ballot, you've made many bad selections. Good Lord, vote for the person, not the party. Don't wait for Jon to educate you, do the research yourself.

I haven't voted a straight party ticket EVER.

Vote the person, not the party.

I never voted a straight ticket either until this year. Never ever will I vote Republican again. Still registered as such but I don't really see the point of making an effort to change it.

As a bidnessman, Ducey will follow the grand AZ traditions of Mecham, Symington III, and Godbehere. If those that usually stay home in a midterm election would come out and vote (or register and vote), maybe DuVal can squeak in (but I'm not betting on it).

AZ is making KS look good.



No point in hoping Republicans will compromise or listen to reason: the Democrats must switch to the attack and Giffords is showing them one of the ways.

Ruben, Thanks for the advice/chastisement.

While I would agree that voting party lines isn't the most politically mature option, some of us younger voters may have only, for example, two gubernatorial elections under our belt. Honestly, I haven't been motivated enough in my two opportunities to vote Democrat for statewide offices.

Note that I said statewide. A certain county sheriff, for example, has provided me the necessary motivation to vote against my registered party affiliation. (If I don't say his name, he can't arrest and sue me, right?)

So far, the Moderate case for DuVal seems to be that he isn't Ducey. While that can work in some races (see Huppenthal's primary), I'm still on the fence. I just thought it'd be worthwhile to ask for analysis / logical advice from someone who I enjoy and respect, despite some differences in political opinion.

I don't think the case has been made for why DuVal would better represent moderate Republicans. I think Jon would do a good job presenting that case.

There is really only one good reason to vote for DuVal.

It will send a message to the AZ Republican Party,

"Yes, you are in charge, but if you don't start representing all of Arizona and not just your lunatic base, maybe you won't be in charge in the future."

Michael: A "moderate Republican" in Arizona today is a Democrat. Nothing radical happened under either Bruce Babbitt or Janet Napolitano.

Isn't that always our "choice": the lesser of two weevils?

Thank you, Jon for saying it: "I'm struck again by our age's childlike awe of the businessman for public office (e.g. Rick Scott in Florida). The public interest is not a business." I've had arguments with Republican businesses owners who have swallowed the "job creators" meme whole. They think they're something special because they have one minimum-wage employee. I suspect they draw from some of the nation's founders who believed voting should be restricted to white land-owners.

I'm sure the top 2 percent are doing just fine. The Ruling Class.

Balance, there is no political balance in Arizona or the US. There are "moderate" republicans in Arizona, they are called RHINO'S by the ruling class, extremists currently in charge of the Arizona party. Although recently the Party did kick out two of the biggest problems, Pearce and Pullen. However I was disappointed that the LDS folks broke apart and let Smith lose to Ducey. Smith in my opinion was a far better choice than Ducey. He runs a good government and has the best Police Chief in Arizona (and we almost lost him to Seattle).

U may have noted there are actually folks on this blog that are registered voting republicans (ME) and I can recall a time when Jon Talton was also. But then Jon and I can remember when Republicans and Democrats in Arizona actually sat down and drank at the same watering holes and talked to one another. Now the parties do not communicate and have separate water holes which Arizona interests would run dry given a the opportunity. (Read Killing the Hidden Waters and Cadillac Desert for starters).

I chatted with Gabby Giffords at the Windsong book store on a ranch near Benson about a month before she got shot. Giffords told me to win her seat in the US legislature she had to get 15 percent of the Mormon vote. That will be Duval's job, and unless Hispanics turn out in record numbers the race will go to Ducey. His "Cradle Catholic" statement may be the decider.

Mr. Talton: Bruce Babbitt did use the National Guard to break that copper miner's strike in Morenci, which was kinda' sorta' radical. But Ducey was seen "pallin' around" with Cliven Bundy, who is essentially hiding behind the skirts of the Oklahoma City bombing to thumb his nose at every American citizen. Let's be honest, if Obama and Holder were right-wing white guys, they wouldn't have to worry about the political optics of enforcing basic federal law. That in itself is plenty of reason to vote against Ducey.

Jon, I suggest your front page editor should consider Brazil or Uruguay.

Echoing Pat:

As soon as I hear Ducey talk about securing the border I knew he had drank the kook kool aid. The GOP from Cheney to Ducey just cant help but try and scare us all to death. Fear, Fear elects way to many politicians.

Here's a view from Barbara, enjoy the humor.

Pat, Bruce was not the strongest AZ governor, Hattie ran a much stronger 10 K
I remember the guys that ran that Morenci show for Bruce. Two of the three have passed on.
There is a good book about the women of that strike by Barbara Kingsolver.

The founders restricted the vote to MALE White Land owners.

The interference in the Phelps Dodge strike cost Babbitt his only real chance at running for POTUS. His timing was off: labor still mattered to the Democrats then.

Ramjet, so the "founders" were not perfect!
They also had genocide on their plate.
Founders, such an overused word and by folks with an agenda.

Jerry thanks for the Giffords links.
Looks like she quit nice and is taking chapters and verse from the GOP Koch and NRA playbook.
Good for her.
I see the AZ Republic called Giffords vile. But U need to remember who is in charge of the Editorial Board. Joe Arpaio's son-in-law.


another Problem with AZ GOP
ALEC has a stranglehold on the GOP and continually writes large amounts of terrible legislation for legislators.

Here's what the CEO of Google said when he announced the company was dropping financial funding for ALEC. (He said they were liars)

ON PBS, Rehm asked Schmidt why Google first involved itself with ALEC.

"Well, the company has a very strong view that we should make decisions in politics based on facts—what a shock," Schmidt said. "And the facts of climate change are not in question anymore. Everyone understands climate change is occurring, and the people who oppose it are really hurting our children and our grandchildren and making the world a much worse place. And so we should not be aligned with such people—they're just, they're just literally lying."

Jerry, McSally bends

Sorry to digress, but I wonder if someone (Cal?) can provide me with a link to an online copy of The Deserter's Tale by Joshua Key. I picked up a used copy of the book recently, and was highly disappointed to find that several pages had been torn out.

Emil , i dont download books but maybe Goodreads.com.
i note it is available used for $3.47 and its also may be published in French. Be Happy to pick U up a physical copy. If any one can answer your question it would be Petro.

Thanks, Cal. It's an eye-opening book and highly recommended. Perhaps I'll include some material from it in a future thread where it would be relevant.

Michael, if you are still reading the comments I would like to suggest that you visit Steve Muratore’s blog the Arizona Eagletarian. Rogue is excellent (as this column demonstrates), but for some specific observation on the differences between DuVal and Ducey the Arizona Eagletarian is unbeatable.
Yes, Steve Muratore is left leaning but he is also very informed. Here are a couple of his articles directed toward DuVal:

Just another (of many) reasons we do not need politicians that want more cops on the border (Ducey) and bigger bombs and armies, and folks like (Trent Franks: "The ISIS is crossing over into AZ")

I was opposed to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan from the get go. Recently the Iranian ambassador laid out why the US should not intervene in the middle east. Of course the Iranian Ayatollahs have their own religious ambitions but thats been the case for thousands of years.
Basically it encourages more recruits for extremists and generates more hate towards the US. And in very few circumstances does US intervention save lives but in reality it kills many innocent people.

The next US elections will tell whether the Neo-Cons and their Halliburton type supporters get richer or slightly not as wealthy.

This is one republican voting Democratic for AZ Governor and attorney General. I am not a RHINO I am a person that votes for rational folks that can logically negotiate in the big picture and have ethics that include being kind, not "manunkind", towards all humanity.

I gotta say, Cal, you are the best! Of all the individuals who post on this, or any blog that I read (admittedly not many), you highlight or bring attention to female authors, activist and journalist more than any other.
We all appreciate you for that ;)

cal that:

I am a person that votes for rational folks that can logically negotiate in the big picture and have ethics that include being kind, not "manunkind", towards all humanity.

Is pretty much the definition of RINO.

Interesting that McSally changed her stance, but still weak. If you have an order of protection against you, you shouldn't be able to purchase a gun and should surrender what guns you have until the order is lifted. Nice pic of the parents of the dog killer at the end.

Now Facebook and Yelp dump ALEC.
Will Kobach, Limbaugh and ALEC get dumped into teaparty purgatory?

And FIGHT we shall!

Great blog post Jon.

We need MORE of your analysis.

Arizona is not an experiment. We're too new to the process.

If America is a laboratory for democracy, many of the older states are the lab techs who have been experimenting for decades before we came on board.

We're the red labeled plastic container in the corner of the lab where dangerous waste products are deposited.

The bad news for us is that the waste crawls out of the container and runs for public office in our state.

Nice Poetry Ruben

And another sample of arizona GOP politics gone wrong.
A piece about Maricopa counties guy to protect the elderly.

The world at war
What U all think about Dennis's say?

Emil - I located a torrent that contains an eBook copy of "The Deserter's Tale" by "Key & Hall." It's a series of books on State-sponsored terrorism, so I'm going to be downloading it. If you want me to send it to you when I get it, email me - mjpetrosmtpgmail.com.

Sorry, my email got mangled. I'll try this again (-dot- means "." & -at- means "@"):


goot job Pstro ubt am stale infused bout ur gemail.
was azrebel in that series

Drunken cal - I've never been stale infused. Is it as interesting as it sounds?

P.S. - The download has completed. Now the proud owner of 30 additional eBooks.

Let me know.

"I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD LOSE MY COUNTRY, and I never dreamed that it would lose me..."

Petro, Drunk not likely, confused or infused or something I was just trying to configure your gmail address. Back from my walk into the dark desert.

If you do not know why columnist Jon Talton left the insidious and threatening state of Arizona, here U go.
Coming to your local theater.
A true story about a friend of any Good truth seeking reporter and a friend of Charles Bowden. A very timely release of the film and stand by for more documentation of the truth.


Suzanne, women in the news and at war

The Middle East Experiment
or 3000 years of religious craziness.
"ISIS has cleverly used us."

cal re: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-j-kucinich/syria-isis-war_b_5869964.html
I am not so sure I agree with all of Kucinich’s accusations (as outlined a, b & c in the article). Regardless, I will take his point for what it is – “ Stuffing the November ballot box with bombs and missiles may even help the Democratic Party retain the Senate.”

I am watching Strategic Vision: America and the Crisis of Global Power by Zbigniew Brzezinski

Sorry all. Got behind and never caught up.

Looking forward to that Gary Webb documentary, cal - thanks.

Well... bio-drama...

Upthread someone mentioned voting the person, not the party. That may have been fine 50 years ago when the reactionaries were more evenly distributed between the two parties - segregationist Dems and Bircher Republicans - but today the reactionaries have found a comfortable home in the GOP. You don't vote for a person when you vote for a Republican in the vast majority of races, you vote for their caucus and that movement of authoritarians and oligarchs, full stop.

You don't get a medal for being "moderate" Republican if you're even considering voting for any GOP statewide candidate, save perhaps the Mine Inspector. This 2014 crew is worse than the 2010 slate that got swept in that year. Same goes for the Legislature.

Also, if you're smart and engaged enough to read Talton columns and comment on them, then you're smart enough to get your own self off the fence about how to vote. Stop looking to liberals to assuage your guilt. If you vote GOP, that's on you, not the fault of Democrats not tenderly stroking your face enough.

Democrat is the party of guilt. It is your greatest weakness.

On conservative blogs I'm called a closet liberal.

Here, soleri calls me a closet republican.

I'm not the one in a closet. You people wearing the party blinders are the ones in the dark.

Vote the person not the party.

DuVal for governor!

Anyone in the world EXCEPT Hillary for president.

See how easy that is when you remove the blinders.

Hillary IS a better candidate than any other person I hear of teased into the race so far. No guilt.
cal, the first female pilot for the United Emirates is great.
Did you know that Deborah Lee James is the US Secretary of the Air Force?

de El Bosque in Mesilla's

Suzanne - that's what YOU say; I think differently about Hillary suitability for ANY public office.

Terry Dudas, I can’t think of another woman in modern history that has or will do as much as Hillary has done in and for the interest of women (ie: healthcare, child care and the promotion of women around the world etc.). I am impressed with the Clinton Foundation’s No Ceilings: The Full Participation Project

You are correct, that is my opinion.

Now that Warren (and, not incidentally, Sanders) have moved from the Israel-is-always-right bandwagon, I am re-intrigued with the possibility of a challenge to Clinton from the left. And I am most pleased that it might be from a woman.

Sorry, but adding up the facts that former Senator from the Great State of Wall Street was required to be a bit cozy with the usual suspects, and that her husband was instrumental in rending apart the FDR-era Glass-Steagall legislation, and her less-than-liberal positions as Secretary of State... well, I'm done with neo-liberalism, and I'm pretty sure that HRC is not.

No vote for Hillary the War Hawk.

The war against the Islamic State is another neocon preemptive war to allegedly prevent future attacks against the US. How did that work out in Iraq? Chaos.

Let the Persians and the Gulf Arabs by proxy fight it out. The proxy should not be the US miltary.
What significant difference does it make to the US whether Persian or Sunni Arabs take control of the desert space in Iraq and Syria? Nada mas.

los hombres comiendo a Enriques este manana
agree with Drifter.
cal near Mejico.

I understand. However, no one, not even Elizabeth Warren is going to end US involvement in the Middle East.

Petro, I put a lot of Bill's garbage on Hillary six years ago. I don't think she should have to carry his luggage forever.

Kunstler had a good column today:


Global income equality now back at 1820s levels: OECD

The gap between the haves and the have-nots globally is now at the same level as in the 1820s, the OECD said Thursday, warning it was one of the most "worrying" developments over the past 200 years...

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