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September 08, 2014


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I remember those late '70s floods that made it all but impossible to commute from Tempe to Scottsdale/Phoenix.

A waitress where I worked, and her husband, would park a small mobile home in the Bob's Big Boy parking lot and she'd "commute" from it to the back door during the traffic-snarling flooding.

The only thing missing from this report is the story of the Loop 202 construction mishap, when the portion along the Salt River collapsed during construction. Was that 1992-1993? Can't remember, but it was notable because the failure was due to a miscalculation of the flash flood flow rate. Now I can't find any information online about this event. Does that mean I'm imagining it?

Apologize, this is off-topic, but this is a great take down of a recent Robert Robb column by Donna Gratehouse, who shows up here now and again: :)

Oh boy, Bob Robb is explaining race relations again

(I recall having an intemperate email exchange with Robb once - I forget what the issue was.)

If you do find yourself in the unfortunate position of driving through water that's deeper than you expected-and it can happen so fast sometimes as to preclude judgement, good or bad-don't take your foot off the gas pedal, or water will flow into your exhaust pipe and stall your car, then you're really screwed. Speaking of Theodore Roosevelt dam, if it should ever fail, there'll be a domino effect all the way down the whole chain, and when it hits the valley, well...fresh start?
On a different note, I was thinking today of segregation in Phoenix schools back in the 1950's, and it occurred to me that my elementary school was comprised of whites, Hispanics, Asians, and American Indians, but around 1959 or 1960, two little black brothers were cautiously shepherded into our school and escorted from class to class by teachers, seemingly dissappearing during recess. I didn't give it any thought then, being an oblivious little shit, but in retrospect I imagine there must have been objections from parents. The boys were only there for maybe a year, then they were gone. Only in high school did integration become the norm. I wonder how many Phoenicians remember the story of Lincoln Ragsdale?

Car flooding. In the old days always carried lighter fluid to put on the points and plugs when they got wet.

I know the story of Lincoln Ragsdale. A great story and I believe Jon has covered that subject some place. So how many of you made the Sky Room jazz scene upstairs in Ragsdale country in the 50's and sixties.

More later on Dams. Gotta work first.

I came out to check out ASU Christmas break 1965 from S. Illinois.I drove through the dry riverbed at Mill and wondered what the hell were these people doing out here.6 days later I took the train back home and the Salt was roaring while I crossed the river in Tempe.That should have been my first clue,but with going in the coal mines as my only other choice,I moved out and started at Phoenix College.The only charge was $50 per semester to join the Student Union and my books.My 2nd wife rode the Hattie B to work and I flew to Sky Harbor from Chandler airport to avoid flood traffic for a warehouse sale.
Cal,I got to see the Reed sisters at the Sky Room in the 70's and Lincoln Ragsdale was a real hero in the black community.

I cursed my hero Teddy Roosevelt today as I fingered a hothouse organic tomato grown in a human chemical invented soup. The "Advent of agriculture was the beginning of the decline of man." and Teddy facilitated this demise by approving the construction of the Roosevelt dam project. The Seri's needed no dams. And they still do not. I have visited them and they will be here when Arizona has been reclaimed by the Great Sonoran Desert.
Much mas tarde.

monsoon rain records, flash floods are short term issues. Next time you open your faucet ask yourself where it came from, is it forever or will you shrivel up and die as we all do when our water is gone. It ain't renewable.

Petro, I just read the Robb article. Then I read donna's analysis.

I.'m afraid Donna's view through her liberal lenses altered the message Robb was trying to articulate.

It is too complex of a subject to make clear for the different factions. Throw in emotion and you don't stand a chance making a clear analysis .

Both parties in this tragedy were wrong. Until that is accepted, you can't make it right.


Despite yesterdays record setting late monsoon downpour, the drought will persist.

For Suzzane:
A more serious flood: World Drug Commission


The War ON Drugs.
To quote Charles Bowden its a "War FOR Drugs"

"There is no war on drugs, rather there is violence, nourished by the money to be made from Drugs"

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts
to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime
out of things that are not crimes."
Abraham Lincoln

Emil, U underwater. based on some of your past posts it seemed U may be near some flood basins or plains?

Mike Doughty. U and I got a couple of years on Jon but despite his love of the Opera and all those great cultural micro soft orgasmic things in Seattle, I think he would been at home at the Sky Room.I certainly had better social relations there than I did at Sarges Cowtown. Ciots Ballroom was a whole nother deal. Singing, dancing, Kicking and ah screaming and fights galore in the parking lots. Saw a guy that now owns a pizzeria on the west side rip a guys eyes out. And of course this is where Actor Jack Elam lost one of his eyes. Well I am off to Bobs for one of them thar milkshakes that you can turn upside down and they stay in the cup. Speaking of cups, babe! Shift.

More on the Flood of drugs,
Criminals drowning in rivers of cash.

The Ian Walsh blog and comments is a must read today.

I tried to tell people what they were getting before Pres. Obama's first election.

Obama is ten times worse than Bush.

Hillary would be 100 times worse than Obama.

I read Welsh. I am one of his readers who “object to this [his] broad brush”. He said, I also predicted, following Stirling Newberry, that on civil liberties and constitutional issues he [President Obama] would institutionalize Bush.
He may have done.
However, I went to Stirling and (while not on the same subject) here is what he said, But neither can the commons, the ordinary man and woman, escape blame. In democratic countries with open primary systems, the population as a whole must take ultimate responsibility for what happens. We became complacent, we believed that others would do the work of democracy, and that we could enjoy the fruits of prosperity without also attending to our responsibilities as citizens beyond, perhaps, voting every few years.

On a side note, the Senate passed a bill 79-18 to advance a Constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United.
My hunch is that this is all show and a no-go in the house, but, hey, what else is there to do?

Ruben, I have heard Hillary say that she does not agree with Obama on foreign policy. I do believe she will be more ‘hawkish’ in her response on foreign issues which I think would be a mistake.

Ruben, Congress is 100 times worse than Bush and Obama! Congress has completed maybe two things in almost 16 years. Since the Black man came they have shut him out at almost every turn. Hell he isnt even allowed on some white golf courses.

Suzzane, Hillary more Hawkish than Obama, how much less than Cheney? I am an Elizabeth Warren fan, thank you.

Obama so far has not done this.

cal, I like Elizabeth Warren. She is a first class lady in my opinion. I don't know how much she can do alone.

She has me!

Floods, I cleaned my car today which Im sure will result in more flooding of the great Sonoran desert, whats left of it since the white man arrived.

cal lash wrote:

"Emil, U underwater?"

Only metaphorically.

"Based on some of your past posts it seemed U may be near some flood basins or plains?"

I'm in central Phoenix, which is where I usually have been.

The biggest predictors of flooding are local rainfall, local geography, and (critically) civil engineering; specifically the design of runoff gradients and outlets (storm sewers and flood canals).

The central city gets much less rain, on average, than outlying areas of metropolitan Phoenix. One presumes this is the result of the heat-island effect and the dynamics of storm-cell creation and propagation.

Speaking of floods, there is a flood of anger over on Ian's blog.

How does that saying go, "hell hath no fury like an Obama supporter scorned".

Let this rainstorm of the ages be a warning to you all, if you unleash Pres. Hillary on the world, you will all perish.

It has been written.

Since his thread seems to be wandering all over the place: My husband is in Phoenix on business and so experienced the Great Flood. We have a town and developments where we live on the Big Island of Hawaii that are now threatened by a lava flow. So it could be worse!

Africa is getting closer to Europe and Japan is just a few heart beats from disappearing under the ocean as China smothers in pollution.
It is gonna get a whole lot worse and Ruben
then it will not matter if Hillary and Putin are singing we shall over come in a kayak in the WhiteWaters.

Since its all about to end I recommend going to the movies:
Ruben for you I recommend
Wonderland, Sin City, A Dame to Die For.

For the idealists the up coming Gary Webb Story, Kill the Messenger is to be released in October.

A movie yet to be made:
The DEA and CIA folks are all in a dither that a second Mexican drug cartel leader is about to slip away from their grasp when he is released from a Mexican prison shortly. A few months ago Caro Quintero slipped away from US feds grasp when he was let out of a Mexican prison on a technicality. God forbid he is out there probably writing about his memories of his great relations with ranking American and Mexican federalis while making billions of dollars.


Side note, Mexican prisons are not all that much worse than American prisons and for billionaire drug cartel prisoners, life is good. Big screen TV, lots of good food, open relative visits, conjugal visits, free Viagra.

I've seen all of the floods since the 1960s. We used to go to the Country Club crossing under the Salt to watch the waters; my maternal grandparents lived next to Indian Bend Wash before it was a green belt; the commuter train that ran during the flood that took out nearly every bridge over the Salt except for the old Mill Ave Bridge (don't build like that anymore) and the RR bridge; not to mention the low level developments that got swept away (your REIT at work!).

Hattie, lava flow? Please!

We have sheriff arpaio who will get reelected and serve into his 90's. (He recently locked up the dog and cat vote)

So don't try to trump us on "it could be worse".

Your islands are overrun with chickens.

We're overrun with quacks.

Ruben want to read about Arizona's worst Flake.
Read retired MSCO deputy Chief Brian Sands book.

and from the New Times.

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