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October 10, 2012


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ASU should have opened up the arena because there was no more room for people to see/hear Clinton speak this evening: "Carmona's campaign was expecting 5,000 attendees, but around 9,000 people showed up and ASU's Performance Lawn was at-capacity."

Of course switching venues at the last minute would have been a logistical nightmare...and the lawn was selected by the Carmona campaign. Nonetheless, capacity was much too low.

Jon, I am not sure which poll you are referring to that has Flake in the lead, but most polls are showing Carmona ahead by a few points:

"An internal poll for Senate Democrats shows former U.S. Surgeon General Richard Carmona leading Republican Rep. Jeff Flake by 4 percentage points – a figure consistent with recent polling that has the candidates locked in a dead heat.

The poll results, outlined in a memo obtained by POLITICO on Wednesday, shows Carmona with a 47 percent to 43 percent advantage over Flake. That falls within the +/- 4 percent margin of error. The poll, conducted by Harstad Strategic Research Inc. for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, surveyed 602 likely Arizona voters from Sunday to Tuesday through live phone calls.

Democrats noted that of the voters surveyed, 39 percent identified themselves as Republican and 30 percent as Democrat, a more Republican sample than the state’s current voter registration. Carmona also led among registered independents 51 percent to 38 percent."

I also wonder how many Hispanics are reached for polls conducted in Arizona. Do they have Spanish speaking callers in case no one in the household who speaks English is available? In many cases, Hispanic households, like many younger Americans today, do not have landlines and rely on cellphones. The same concerns were being raised during the Pearce recall election. Polls showed that the numbers were closer than the eventual outcome between Pearce and his challenger.

I did find a "poll of polls" that shows a statistical dead heat between Carmona and Flake.


Poll of polls...sounds comical. The Daily Show had a segment on this very topic in tonight's show.

The Republic televised Carmona and Flake's appearance before the Editorial Board yesterday, so we may be headed toward better transparency and more influence by Robert Leger, its new overseer. Timing seemed late in the game, though.

Carmona is feisty and poised! He pretty much cleaned Flake's clock, showing broader and more balanced understanding of the key issues. Hard to pigeon-hole him as the typical Democrat. Let's hope he's got a chance, but the clock is ticking down.

Flakes "Pork Barrel" stance looks and sounds like a good thing but it is more about his philosophy that the LDS take care of their own and screw everyone that is not LDS.

I am not sure why he wanted to open trade with Cuba but I have always thought that was a good Idea.

Carmona is a nightmare for the kooks in Arizona. He probably would tear down that "Dang" fence.

To me he looks more like an Eisenhower that chose to be a Democrat.

Your comments about water reminded me of a Dali Lama quote,

"But however the tea is prepared, the primary ingredient is always water," he says. "While we can live without tea, we can't live without water. Likewise, we are born free of religion, but we are not born free of the need for compassion."

And this nation is short on both!

Congressman Flake is scheduled for a quick (1 hour) visit at MD Helicopters this morning (in fact he might already be here).

Thanks Rogue for the history.

My arrival to Arizona decades ago coincided with the election of Mecham as governor. Given that first impression of Arizona politics, and its continual rightward movement since then, it is good to be informed and reminded that Arizona once elected people who actually represented the state.

Ryan, the Texas delegation and other proponents of smaller government never forget to bring the bacon home from DC to their constituents. The Virginia federal delegation continually preaches the Tea Party line while swimming in pork barrel fat.

Not Flake. As an Arizona Senator, he will sacrifice the financial benefits of federal programs for Arizonans for his ideologically pure idea of budget cutting. Texas will gladly take what Flake rejects.

During the Republic Ed Board's TV session yesterday, Congressman Flake conjured up an expression that was both smarmy, snarky and condescending. I've never seen anything quite like it . . certainly didn't serve him well to act like such a pampered patrician!

Well Flake came and went and about the only thing of note was he wondered where the billionairess' office is (she not in town however).

Flake must be doing something right. Both sides are pissed off at him.

Only in AZ could a guy named "flake" have a snowflake's chance in hell against a man of Carmona's stature and accomplishments.

It's a gross mismatch.
It's like putting Corky in as president of MIT instead of Feynman.

The Peter Principle says that in a hierarchy people will rise to their level of incompetency. The problem with Flake is that's it's incompetency all the way down...

That's not to suggest there isn't appropriate work for Flake somewhere, maybe shoveling something, or working the front desk at a gym. But a US Senator? Instead of Carmona? It's enough to knock one to the floor with a hearty bellylaugh...

I like Corky too, I just don't think he should in charge of rocket scientists or a US Senator.

go koreyel go

"cal Lash" wrote:

"Your comments about water reminded me of a Dali Lama quote: 'But however the tea is prepared, the primary ingredient is always water,' he says."

Evidently the Dalai Lama has never heard of the habit (known in Asia and elsewhere) of chewing tea leaves.

H2O in the saliva dude.

Mr. Talton wrote:

"Flake is vehemently opposed to 'pork barrel spending.' Translation: He will do nothing to help a populous, urbanized state address complex issues, opposing responses at the federal or local level."

This is an interesting take, but you'll have to defend it a little to get me to accept it.

The usual definition of "pork barrel" spending is "the appropriation of government spending for localized projects secured solely or primarily to bring money to a representative's district."

That's a bit different from CAP, federal labs and research dollars, even if they do end up disproportionately benefitting particular counties or districts.

Flake himself wrote, in a Washington Post editorial on the subject, that:

"What I am talking about, and what its practitioners are seeking to defend, is the contemporary practice of earmarking, which typically involves individual members of Congress identifying specific projects for which they obtain exclusive funding."


President Obama had this to say in a 2009 speech on earmark reform:

"Done right, earmarks have given legislators the opportunity to direct federal money to worthy projects that benefit people in their districts, and that's why I've opposed their outright elimination. . . But the fact is that on occasion, earmarks have been used as a vehicle for waste, and fraud, and abuse. Projects have been inserted at the 11th hour, without review, and sometimes without merit, in order to satisfy the political or personal agendas of a given legislator, rather than the public interest. . . So these practices hit their peak in the middle of this decade, when the number of earmarks had ballooned to more than 16,000, and played a part in a series of corruption cases."


AZRebel wrote:

"H2O in the saliva dude."

H20 in the tea, for that matter: leaves don't grow without water in some form or other. However, the Dalai Lama quote conceived of "water" as something distinct from both tea leaves and saliva.

Fake Buddhists like the Dalai Lama (and his minions in the form of the Sith Lord "cal Lash") should spend less time constructing facile but ultimately misleading analogies, and more time constructing baffling but ultimately enlightening koans. Or possibly spinning prayer wheels. (I haven't made up my mind yet on that one and am waiting for Tim Russert to weigh in. The fact that he's "dead" needn't pose an intractable problem. Just ask John Edward or that little boy from The Sixth Sense.)

Who are the real buddhists and is chewing tobacco a kind of tea?

Somebody is punching some air tonight.

Is that too misleading?

It's either punch the retard or the air.
Maturity does escape some.

I am off to see Searching for Sugarman, again. A great documentary and a good story about the guy that produced it.

Petro wrote:

"Somebody is punching some air tonight. Is that too misleading?"

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

"I am off to see Searching for Sugarman, again. A great documentary and a good story about the guy that produced it."

You probably mean "Searching for Sugar Man", which came out this year, hence enabling you to yet again pose as avant-garde by dropping not-very-subtle hints about which arcane books you are allegedly reading or which art films you are allegedly viewing. I, for one, am impressed both by your edginess and by the breadth of your interests. Ha ha ha ha ha!

By contrast, "Searching for Sugarman" is an old film school project made by Woody Allen while attenting NYU. It's about two film students waiting in an empty auditorium for Sugarman, a delicatessen owner who never shows up and who may or may not be an actual person, during which time they engage in long philosophical discourses about the perfect bagel and why it can never manifest on the physical plane.

Also in contrast to "Searching for Sugar, Man" a 1970s "blacksploitation" movie about drug dealers in Harlem engaged in a gang war. It starred Telly Savalas (in blackface) as Rico, a Puerto Rican interloper forced to fight for his life after taking the wrong El-train. His accent was so bad it actually won an Oscar nomination. (Typical of the period, his accent refused the award as a protest against the arrest of Leonard Peltier.

"Who are the real buddhists and is chewing-tobacco a kind of tea?"

These are two questions.

(1) A monk once asked Master Joshu, "Has the dog a Buddha nature or not?".

"Mew," replied Joshu.

"Don't you mean 'MU'?!" asked the astonished monk?

"What?" replied Joshu as a hungry kitten wriggled its way out of his robe. "Hey, ouch, stop that scratching!"

(2) http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ipm/msg071521218483.html

Oh, I see... it's you.

OK, I'll be more specific. I normally like to leave rhetorical wiggle-room for the other - I don't see much profit in cornering people since remarks are, often, off-the-cuff, and not necessarily deeply-held positions. But you had to be cute.

"Fake" Dalai Lama* constructed a "facile but ultimately misleading" analogy.

I'm curious - is the ubiquity and life-essential quality of water too much of a reach for you to be a metaphor of the ubiquity and life-essential quality of compassion?

Or are you one of those unfortunates for which the experience of compassion is a puzzling abstraction - observable, but with sincerity suspect? Sociopaths are like that - they fake it to "get along" (the criminally-minded ones fake until they "get over.")

If it's *not* you, a thousand apologies. But that "avant-garde" snark increased the odds enough for me.


*I've seen the Dalai in dialectical circumstances, and I admit with candor that he is not entirely ego-free. Few of us are able to resist pausing when passing the looking-glass, though, and a touch of pretentiousness is a charming human frailty. He seems a decent chap, though.

I am now sorry I made a comment about Buddhists, tea and chewing tobacco, and I apologize. I could not grasp what Pulsifer was getting at. I don't need to. I just want to get on with my life. I realize now that I don't have the intellectual breadth or depth to be commenting here in the Rogue comment section. I don't know nothing about no Sugarman or Sugar Man either. If you do then God bless you. And I didn't know nothing about Flake until I read this Rogue post-- except that he looks like a cowboy which is almost enough reason to vote for him. A few years back a woman in a car rear ended another car at a stop light in Tucson. The man whose car was hit must have been in a foul mood which motivated him to begin pistol whipping the woman who had bumped him. A couple of car lengths away, calmly taking it all in, sat Carmona! who exited his car with his own pistol drawn. He said to the miscreant, "This antisocial behavior of yours has gone quite far enough, now drop the gun!" But he did not drop it-- he raised it at Carmona and fired, grazing his skull. Carmona returned fire, hitting his target thus ending the life of the pistol toting hothead. This Carmona wears many hats. The hour is lat and I must be running along. Thanks in advance, all of you smoking jacket clad intellectuals for your kind indulgence. Now listen carefully and mark my word, never again will there arise in this comment section the the opportunity to kick ol' John around! (snort, snicker)

A wise man once stated in a blog entry: "'Worse, [Flake] will confirm that Arizona is a solid red state, whatever scraps are left in a few congressional districts.'"

A dummy in Denver replied, "That is still being debated?"

Good post John.
U might like the documentary, "Searching for Sugar Man" currently showing at theaters. Its about a good guy named Rodriquez from Detroit via Mexico that plays the guitar, sings and writes songs that got lost for 40 years in the big world shuffle. In South Africa he has been more popular than Elvis and the Rolloing Stones. He just didnt know it for 40 years.

The early voting ballots are here!
The early voting ballots are here!

That's one vote for Gary Johnson for President.

" That's one small step for man, one giant step for mankind"

Petro, as usual you can't see the forest for the trees of pseudo-intellectualism you've planted and keep bumping your blindfolded head against.

I have nothing against the Dalai Lama or against compassion. I saw the point of the water analogy perfectly well. I was simply twitting "cal Lash".

Somehow, you always manage to see the spirit of ironic detachment and wryness (even when it doesn't exist), except from me, when it's clear and deliberate. I think you've failed the Turing Test.

Speaking of which, "cal Lash" has some nerve calling me immature -- an accusation I don't altogether deny -- I just think that he has some nerve posturing that way, coming from someone who once described me as "the man child of HAL and David" (from 2001 A Space Odyssey); he once wrote to an elected official (Mayor Stanton) saying that if he were "in charge Arizona would become a Federal wilderness"; and who just finished using the phrase "punch the retard" in connection with commentary in this thread.

Dear Emil:
Please tell me you're joking.
Warmest regards,

The Republic's Rubber-Stamp Republican Editorial Board endorsed Flake and wrote that he'd acquitted himself well in the recent meeting with Carmona.
Isn't this basically the same group that preferred Brewer to Terry Goddard! Jon knows the players involved, but I've been hoping that Robert Leger's addition might bring some better balance. I know him from the Scottsdale Republic days and was fairly optimistic that he might counterbalance the Nowickis, et al. Wrong!

I think you've failed the Turing Test.
I did? You mean cal was right? Ba dum bump.

(Note to CID: That was a joke.)

Seriously, no hard feelings, man.

John, we hardly knew yee.

Japanese Zen Buddhists? Aren't they the same ones that helped Nippon down the path of Imperialism? Their cup is empty and runneth over at the same time!

The political scene has take a Zen turn,
the Phoenix mayor is on food stamps.
I am sending him a copy of "The Man that quit Money" from my lending library on wheels.

The Flake and Romney road.


Shintoism, the indigenous Japanese spiritual path, would be the more likely suspect in assisting in the rise of Imperial Japan. The present day Shinto temples are mighty fine.

Here's what most don't know about Flake:

1. He wants to open Cuba--not for trade--but for Mormon missionaries since they are not allowed there. . .yet.

2. His trip to the Kwajalein island was spiritual. He believed if he meditated God would speak to him and "tell him to run for the Senate." Apparently, God did speak to him, huh?

3. His ranch in Snowflake was populated with lots of illegals doing alot of the work. Explains his stance on Amnesty, huh?

4. He chose to attend BYU--not any of Arizona's fine universities. Why? Religion takes priority.

5. Do the math: He went on a two-year mission, went to BYU and obtained a master's degree--in one year's LESS time than it would take anybody else. How?

6. His resume reads of one "groomed" for the political scene--but like Romney. SOMEBODY is behind all of these LDS candidates, lately--and it is EXACTLY who you think it is.

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