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November 09, 2016


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Theoretically in a democracy the will of the majority rules.

Unfortunately, that's not how we roll.

Many of the people who supported Trump need government to survive. They may not like to admit this, but that doesn't make it any less true. Let's see how they do when the government they've been taught to despise is "drowned in a bathtub."

When Obama was elected (not by me) he was given a CLEAR MANDATE on about ten items. He and the democrats said, "sure , we'll get around to those mandates you want real soon. " Meanwhile, bend over, here's a tube of vasaline, bend over because here comes Obamacare.

Needless to say, we've been pissed off ever since.

Despite Obama accomplishing many, many things over his terms, we're still pissed.

I'm reminded of a tombstone in the cemetery at Boot Hill in Tombstone AZ. It says. " I told you I was sick".

So, for soleri, Hattie and all you know it all democrats,

" I told you we were pissed"

You cannot look at a fairly close election like the one we just had without looking very closely at both candidates.

On Bernie, here's some data to dig into:


Yeah, the right would have screamed SOCIALIST. And Bernie would have said, well, yeah.

But there was no Benghazi, there were no emails, there was no "spouse impeached and screwing interns in the White House", there was no 2008 failure, there was no Hillary care failure, there was no crappy Sec. of State tenure, there was no Wal Mart Board, there were no screwball Foundation rumblings, no Wall Street speeches, no you're where you are because of who you married. And I don't recall Bernie ever suggesting that about 30 million Americans are "deplorable". And there would not have been any "because that's what they paid me" quip.

Get the point?

Bernie Sanders probably has as much integrity as any federal elected official today. He is self made, honest, a terrific communicator, and with Bernie, you know EXACTLY what he stands for. And, he's an outsider.

President elect Trump's an outsider, too.

Your 4th and 5th paragraphs are pretty solid. Believe it or not, people don't like being ignored or talked down to. This country has about 853 problems more pressing than where transgender folks can go to the bathroom.

I feel the DNC is getting off to easy for putting up such a weak candidate. They should have seen this coming after 2008.

One other thing:

Clinton had 54% of the female vote but Trump had 42%. And Clinton only beat Trump 49% to 45% among all college educated voters.

There's no doubt that the white non college male was the core for Trump; but another factor was the HRC could not put enough space between her and Trump in those two categories.

Good column, Jon. I agree that the GOP is not going to pussyfoot around. They're going to go right for the jugular and get as much done in these two (or more) years as they can. At this point, I don't see the beleaguered Dems putting up much fight on Obamacare.

It's going to be interesting to see what the Republicans try to accomplish and how much of the GOP agenda Trump actually goes along with or opposes. You just never know; for better or worse, he is definitely "his own person."

I wonder if the Democrats will do all they can to delay Supreme Court appointments despite being in the Senate minority -- that's what the GOP said they would do, no matter what happened in the Senate and Presidential races. I'm interested from a procedural standpoint to see how long the minority party can delay an appointment if they dig their heels in.

It's interesting that the markets decided free spending, higher debt, high interest rates, inflation, were all bully with them. That's the short term outlook I guess but long-term it could be disastrous. But, again, who knows what Trump will really decide to pursue?

Trump knows how to win, but how about how to govern? I guess we will see who holds the reins -- the GOP party bosses and their agenda, or whatever it is Trump decides he wants to do. I have a feeling the party as a whole will try to pursue their own agenda and not necessarily his -- but we will see, maybe everyone will just fall in line.

And yet she still won the popular vote. Go figure.

I just finished your Seattle Times column, Jon, and my first reaction was that we are experiencing a living nightmare. It doesn't get any worse than this. Come January, we'll experience hell, and Trump is Lucifer. Despite this, I want to ring the necks of people like Ruben Perez, who stupidly think that President Trump will somehow improve their fortunes over Obama or Hillary Clinton. He won't bring the coal industry back, or restore manufacturing jobs to the Rust Belt states. Fracking in the Dakotas, Wyoming and Colorado killed coal, as did the House of Saud's decision to open the floodgates to its oil reserves. And his promise to bring manufacturing jobs back to America is laughable. Americans are addicted to cheap goods that are a trade off for "Made in China", "Made in Mexico" and other second- and third-world nations. Trump will be the King of Broken Promises.
But, hey, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He has no foreign or domestic-policy experience, has only listed talking points on his Website and plans to fill his cabinet with people like Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani and ... Sarah Palin. I am not making that up. Pardon my French, but we are so fucked.

Jon, you already stole part of my story title. Later, working on a 451

America feels sad and depleted. Instead of a sputtering but still upward arc, there will be a steady grind into a deep ditch of polarization and culture-war paralysis. I didn't see the extent of this revolt from below. I assumed Latinos would lift this nation above the white resentment politics of the right. But in the end, Latinos didn't turn out in numbers as virtually everyone on the left predicted. Hillary ended up doing worse than Obama with them and blacks. This points out the difficulty in mobilizing an electorate when the very symbol of the liberal coalition is impaired by an inability to connect as a charismatic and galvanizing personality. Could Joe Biden have done a better job? I tend to think so but we'll never know. The basic fact remains that Hillary required surrogates to do that work of emotional connection and in the end, they couldn't make the sale.

Obama's oratory was still inspiring, however. When he intoned, "I want you to carry her like you carried me", I knew exactly what he was getting at. Politics is more about the coalition we belong to than the personality of its leader. When some of us advance the idea of a pure leader, we're hearkening back to a primitive ideal that only great men can save us. In periods of great stress and anxiety, we revert to a childish wish for a leader to take care of us. This is what Trump was able to convey despite his utter lack of seriousness and depth. He was the strongman/bully who skillfully made this election about his alpha-male dominance.

We need a better or more precise word than fascism to explain the Trump phenomenon. Hitler is excessive as a comparison, and even Mussolini misses the mark. Trump is a man-child with a desperately hungry ego. But his immersion in the rough and tumble of the New York media spotlight tells us a few things. One is that Trump is extraordinarily vain but not disciplined. He craves adulation but is bored with the details of policy and deal-making. He's also vindictive, petty, and cruel, which are traits we associate with dictators and sociopaths. But he will be managed now by a large retinue of retainers who will do everything possible to protect him from himself.

Trump is not inspirational either in his biography or oratory. He will strut on national the stage with bravado and a vaguely menacing presence. His governance will be largely ad hoc and incoherent. Still, the possibility of catastrophe lies tantalizingly close to the surface of his mercurial personality. If the republic doesn't survive his presidency, we will at least be entertained by a spectacle both sclerotic and degrading. Late-stage empires are alive with the phosphoresence of decay. They glow and flicker in the darkness of our national soul.

I think Glenn Greenwald sums it best in this piece from The Intercept


Chris, I've never once professed support for Trump.

As a delusional dem , all you are capable of doing is blaming everyone else but yourself.

You guys messed it up. Get a mirror. You did it.

You missed the mood of the nation. Completely. Maybe the media played you. But bottom line you miffed it.

You couldn't have been handed a bigger win on a platter, but oops, you ended up giving it your worst shot.

You guys are junior varsity.

How's that vaunted Clinton ground game working for you??

Whether you like it or not , I share many core values with you folks on this blog, but lord , I don't like being around losers. I don't like the smell.

Stand by:
McConnell: Trump Can Unravel Nearly Everything Obama Did

The Democrats biggest mistake was underestimating just how ignorant many Americans truly are. It's breathtaking.

They've swallowed Reagan's lies whole, and regurgitated them to each succeeding generation. It's like a particularly ugly religion.

The fact is that Republicans don't really like to govern. Remember, the Federal government is the devil and they're all "good" Christians.

No, what they like is power.

And when they have it they like to harm their enemies.

The poor, the weak, women, minorities in general, Blacks in particular.

The idea that they will bring millions of jobs back to the Rust Belt is laughable. Only a realistic approach to a changing world, i.e. Green Energy and its new technologies, will do that. Their beloved pipeline will transfer toxic shale oil across our largest aquifer, provide a few thousand jobs at best, and despoil a large section of America's heartland. That, and ensuring coal mining jobs can continue to provide black lung disease for another generation, is their entire energy policy.

Their health care program favors insurance companies and Big Pharma at the expense of consumers, their education program starves public schools in favor of charter schools, and just wait until they finally get their hands on Social Security.

They do not govern. They rape and pillage. And then they occasionally throw a bone to their base, to keep them in line.


Ballot-count update: More than 600,000 Arizona votes left to process
The Republic | azcentral.com 7:50 p.m. MST November 9, 2016


As of Wednesday evening, there were nearly 628,000 votes still to be processed statewide, with 470,000 of those in Maricopa County, officials said. Those outstanding votes will make it hard to finalize close races, including the one for Maricopa County recorder and some legislative districts.

Welcome to the Fourth Turning

Trump is a nativist, a know-nothing.

The buzz around the water cooler is that the Dems should compromise and not protest (unlike what the Repubs did for the last 8 years). They were once again ready to water the tree of liberty with someone's blood, but now they can slowly suck it out of us.

I believe you also stated your belief on FB that disaffected Mormons in AZ, who couldn't ever vote for Trump, would put Hillary over the top there. Strange days, indeed.

As a white male (early 30's, middle class, educated, homeowner, veteran, don't ever get hassled by cops -- a life that I don't feel is privilege and should be a baseline for all, I would hope) I had to admit something to my fiancee last night. With the election of Trump, I felt like I had a voice back. I didn't expect it to happen. I was surprised to feel as such. But I am owning it. Your 4th paragraph hits the nail on the head.

This forum (your blog) is quite tame in internet terms. I think back, especially during the campaign season where "I'm concerned about Hillary's foreign policy agenda" was met (outside here -- pick your favorite social media platform) with, "You MUST be a racist misogynist then!" If I tried to interject any statement other than, "I support you. I am an ally. Just tell me what you need me to do." Then I wasn't accepted to the table to discuss sexual assault or police shootings. The opposite, in fact. It was, "you [I assume 'white men'] created these problems. You haven't fixed them. They are our fight now. We're going to fight it and we're going to fight it our way!" As asinine as their plans to picket the police station and ignore the upcoming city council meeting were.

I can yell at other white men. I read conservative white males who posted about "taking out the trash" and finally getting to see their agenda rammed through the same as the ACA was forced on them. I have no problem engaging them. I have no problem telling them the flaws in their argument or how their tone and message is fertile soil to make the left feel the same resentment and disenfranchisement he felt. I can't do that, in the echo chamber of the over-empowered left. I could give the plans for a perpetual motion machine and someone -- usually someone who feels their personal power or authority is threatened -- will thank me for mansplaining or whitewashing or #notallmen -ing or ask if I learned that in a book because I've never experienced what they have experienced.

Did it annoy me? Yes - but I got it too. Feeling empowered is just as important as having that power. This is why we try to get people involved in their neighborhoods or to buy in to causes. They're trying to control their own destiny because, when it's been up to others, they haven't been pleased with the results. And it gave me, to an extent, the experience that I'm sure minorities or women feel when their valid input is dismissed because the Insiders Club isn't accepting outside suggestions at this time.

I now see these same people protesting Donald Trump's election. What is there to protest? He won the election and hasn't done anything but give a vanilla acceptance speech. You don't get to protest just because you lost. But they are. And they are promising to be as hateful towards Trump and insisting on complete obstructionism, just as they felt Obama endured.

I have little faith that America has learned any lessons. We are, unfortunately, a country of strong individuals. Individuals who are willing to dig in their heels for four or eight years with the hope that they'll get 100% of what they want down the road -- rather than 50% or 60% now. It's not enough to win, we need to rub the losers noses in it. We don't elect leaders, we elect winners. And there are too many angry voices that scream the loudest -- this campaign season being a perfect example as the Silent Majority* including, as INPHX points out, women and hispanics who waited patiently until election day after 18 months under "the thought police".

After the fact now, I wonder what it would have taken to pacify the Trump voters to staying home this year. I don't honestly think it's just a matter of defeating a black/woman candidate. What if Solyndra hadn't been a bust -- would mining towns accept that coal is dying and not just a victim of the government picking winners and losers? What if protests against police shootings didn't try to shut down the Deck Park Tunnel, even though Phoenix PD has a pretty good relationship with the community, making it look like the protesters are more interested in 'doing something' than exacting change? What if Obama had called out the GOP more and "pussyfooted" around less? What if the DNC and Sanders actually fought a primary and gave Hillary the opportunity to take her lumps in March instead of everything being a general election surprise? What if Clinton had gone out and tried to win Wisconsin handily and left Arizona alone, instead of playing a National Prevent Defense that resulted in more than a couple close losses?

We are where we are now. And I don't ask anythign as a way to place blame. We need to live together in this upcoming reality. The Dow closed up yesterday -- they've clearly come to grasps with it. Now it's our turn.

* Electoral College Majority

Soleri writes:

Instead of a sputtering but still upward arc, there will be a steady grind into a deep ditch of polarization and culture-war paralysis.

Boy, that's sure a contrast with the last 8 years......

INPHX, not that you angels had anything to do with creating a toxic atmosphere of racist invective, innuendo, reality inversions, and epistemic closure. Heaven forfend.

How well I remember you calling Trump's racist birther lie "legitimate". Because for racists, there is no question that Obama was illegitimate for no other reason than the color of his skin. There was nothing else to buttress this lie except that. And a majority of Republicans gladly celebrated that Goebbels-like disinformation as the truth.

I'm sorry racists have to live in America where they're not free to call the first African-American president a "half-breed" without being shamed for being politically incorrect. Life is so unfair! It's one of those minor ironies that overfed white males see themselves as victims of modernity. I keep hearing they don't feel comfortable in their own country. Guess what? None of us do. Still, this isn't the 1950s where colored folk knew their place and Latinos were wetbacks. We are, for better or worse, a work in progress. Whether we crash this experiment on the shoals of race, culture, and gender-based anxiety remains to be seen. But there's no path back to Mayberry. That's over.

Enjoy your little moment of cultural reaction because America's future is not 1950.


Well, at least 9 race references, a Nazi reference, "reality inversions", and Mayberry.

Did you learn anything from the election?

Are you capable?

INPHX, I learned that racists like you hate what America is becoming.

Michael Moore's 5 point morning after To Do List



Was that learning process similar to the process you used in predicting Trump's definitive loss?

Pretty solid data here if you can get through the pontificating.


Dems just didn't show up.....

INPHX, I didn't lose. America did.

We lost when Republicans stole the 2000 election on behalf of a genial but clueless ex-alcoholic. We lost when a genial but clueless actor crashed the national stage in order to make the rich richer and more powerful. And we lose every time people play identity politics at the expense of national unity and purpose. And I do mean your tribe here. No one has corroded the necessary ties that bind us more than culture warriors and race baiters. You know: people like you. And the Republican Party that overcame what remains of its humanity and coalesced behind the most ostentatiously unqualified man to ever run for and win the presidency.

If you were capable of shame, you would drop this pretense that you care about America. You care about Team R, which is now a white nationalist party based in a reactionary media that plays the rubes like they're idiots. This is our national disaster and you're Exhibit A (along with Ruben) in this forum. "Deplorable" is an understatement. Trump's election is nothing less than a catharsis of cruelty and insanity. No one with a soul is celebrating this horror. Only people like you.

Okay, enough of this back and forth. I'm outta here.


Some people will learn from this election.

They'll learn that the 60 million that voted for Trump probably aren't all scorched earth racist misogynists. Same with those that helped the GOP keep the Senate and the House, and the Governorships, the state legislatures, the state attorney generals, and most of the majority of elected offices in this country.

They'll acknowledge the beating that Dems have been taking since the 2010 mid terms, after the country had seen 2 years of Obama, Harry , and Nancy, and said, pretty clearly, no thanks.

And they'll think. They'll say well, maybe, we need to change. Maybe we need to tinker a little bit with what voters we're addressing. And maybe we need to be more inclusive. And maybe they'll realize that just because someone has different priorities, that doesn't mean that they're anti American. They'll acknowledge that folks don't like being talked down to and definitely don't like being told who's the better person for an elected position.

And they'll acknowledge one man, one vote. And that Harvard PHD's get to vote but so do high school drop outs. And those votes count the same.

And that maybe race and gender really aren't that important in selecting a candidate. Maybe it's just the best person.

On the other hand, there are folks like you. Folks who double down on ideas that don't work. Who don't acknowledge change they disagree with. Who are so totally convinced that they're RIGHT. Who can't reason well- who just attack and name call.

Dinosaurs wearing blinders, stumbling around and luckily avoiding the tar pits- until that one leg slides in. And then, it's over. An eternity stuck in a tar pit.

Dylan once wrote you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone.

Better make a choice, genius.

"Folks who double down on ideas that don't work"

Which ideas would these be? Please be specific.

Obamacare and the lies told to sell it.

The administrative fixes for Obamacare.

Considering postponing the Cadillac Tax.

Drawing a line in the sand on Syria

Bringing terrorists to NYC to face trial.

Letting the federal deficit explode.

The most recent executive order on federal contracts and unions.

Union expansion in a global economy.

Minimum wage laws.

Dodd Frank-the banks are bigger than ever.


No solution on immigration

No meaningful tax reform.

Supporting the estate tax.

Not enforcing the border.

Allowing Sanctuary cities.

Crappy GNP growth.

Suing Arizona over immigration policy.

Didn't close Gitmo

Paralysis in Washington

I think the problem here is that some of us are trying to live in 2016 and some of us want it to be 1890 again.

You know, robber barons running wild, child labor, desperate workforce, no pesky government regulations keeping the air and water clean, plenty of land to despoil, Ku Klux Klan enforcing the honor of the white race.

Well, INPHX, the popular vote be damned, it looks like you're going to get "your" country back, at least temporarily. Make sure you keep the darkies, wimmenfolk, and uppity children in line, you hear?

God, what a dark, ugly, hopeless place it will be. But at least you'll be paying less taxes, huh?

Every one of INPHX's points can be refuted and/or put in its proper context. But what's the point? I grow more convinced that he is actually a paid troll here to disrupt the comments and shut down constructive discussion.

Yeah, but at least single payer got a big boost.

80% against.



Then I shall not feed the troll.

You are completely correct.

Anyone want to toss around ideas on where the Democratic party goes from here?

I tend to agree with those that suggest the establishment democrats need to go.

We need the Liz Warrens, Bernie Sanders, Raul Grijalvas, Keith Ellisons to become the party leaders

I suspect you would have a purist party that wins 30 percent of the vote. Remember, Hillary won the popular vote. The problem is partly structural. And Sanders, Warren et al won't disavow the cultural left or more immigration. So there we have it.

One of the largest problems is that, as you've noted on the Front Page, the Republicans have mastered the art of voter suppression in all its malign forms.

That's exactly the sort of thing the Voting Rights Act was supposed to protect us from. But then the Roberts' Court decided that in "post racial" America there was no need for that sort of protection.

And whoever or whatever Trump gets on the Court will only help bugger things up even more.

Like the man said, elections have consequences. And in this case most of them will be awful.

An update on my previous predictions. National News is stating Arpaio is on the short list for HLS.

Blaxabbath, I haven't forgot you question on Tent city. I will try and get something posted. It's not a two sentence answer. Plus I have to check with a friend and poster here with real experience in the inner workings of Tent city.

What's happening? I'm gone for a while and now people have apparently decided to take the scenic route.

In any case, it's not the downfall of the republic, yet. Any republican would have been a strong favorite to win it. The primaries were the real surprise.

Sooner or later the tide will turn again. So it makes sense to keep grinding. But we will see the damage caused by what Jon Talton likes to call the "full tea". And the damage will stay. Congress is driving the boat on domestic matters. The plans by Ryan&Co are ready to go. Magic tax cuts, deficits that suddenly don't matter, cutting on everything that looks like welfare state, the usual. With Kansas-style consequences. Though in a weird way I'd actually respect them for cutting deep into Medicare. But that's not to be expected because it'd directly interfere with their base - even suicide bombers are not that suicidal.

By the way, expect a recession next year. It's been almost ten years since the last one started. This one's going to be compounded by whatever random economic policy the next administration and Congress will come up with; tax cuts can only do so much.

The one thing I'm more nervous about is foreign policy. El presidente and his team could really step into it. The world doesn't need to become more unstable as it is.

In the end, life and history are tragic. The endeavor to limit CO2 emissions to protect civilization was failed before Trump turned up. During the last decade we could hear that only a few years were left to turn it around. Well, the years have passed and not much has changed. Instead, the positive model scenarios get ever more ridiculous. 1.5 degrees? Sucking net gigatons of carbon out of the air by midcentury? Really?

I can't be too Zen about it because I'll actually live to see the middle of this horrible century. Until then, those of you who can, enjoy your retirements. The Kookocracy has gone national, international even. Rogue, you have been more right than wrong. I'd understand an indefinite hiatus. Why keep participating in a sphere that has poisoned the public?


Still going to hold the line with your position.

With respect to the direction the democratic party should go, You were wrong in the primaries and you are wrong today.

Thankfully, there are plenty of other intellectuals, columnists, activists etc, that can see the writing on the wall with this bankrupt liberal establishment(the root cause of trumpism)

I can't stomach listening to anyone still hawking anymore Hillary Clintons for agents of change. Can't do it. So Im out, will not be reading your column anymore.

Another one bites the dust

John, you have been a consistent brave voice. Unfortunately there is no constructive dialogue here, between opposing views. It'll probably be that way for a while, until the waters get spoiled for all of us. Trying times. Enjoy your break, we'll welcome you back.

Statistically less people voted for Clinton than Obama in the states that counted. Votes that would have made Clinton a winner.

I was going to write a piece called after NIGHTFALL or maybe Darkness before the Light but didnt get around to it. Something about Rough White men riding thru the night while the Democrats slept.

But before I go to sleep a post. thank you for all your comments. PS, I checked my Visa for Uruguay and coffee with Jose Mujica. Bernie cant make it.

Bernie Sanders endorses Congressman Keith Ellison, a Black Muslim to head up the Democratic Party.

This was George Washington’s Farewell Address. "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty".

Where I live (Arizona) around the campfire there was never any doubt who was going to win the election. It was so known that it was seldom brought up in conversation except by a fool like me. The white boys would smile and say but Cal it’s a done deal, Trump of course. This was weeks before the election. It was like they had a secret that they didn’t care to share. They just smiled.
If you said what about the polls they just smirked and said, bunch of stupid college boys with their computer crap. Just listen Cal, you can hear it on the wind. They indicated if you really were a good pollster you would stop in at the Wagon Wheel bar and get your answers. And they just kept smiling and went to bed early on November 8, 2016.

Some comments sent to me by folks that read the blog but do not post.

From a very White anti people of color and Trump supporter to me:
Finally Americans can take back the America that the Founding Fathers sacrificed for. AMEN!!!
My response to him:
The election confirmed White men are superior. So now that your tribe has dealt with Obama, Hillary, the blacks and the Muslims and Mexicans you just need to get President Jackson/Trump to wipe out them pesky redskins, once and for all. Slavery is back in fashion. Mostly economic slavery but who knows maybe America can get back to the good ole days when slavery was legal. Of course you know the first inhabitants of American was not Redskins but the all-White lost tribe of Israel.



Ross is exactly right:

You are exactly the reason we have Trump as the Pres. elect. You consider yourself a genius, above reproach and infallible.

This election is not about liking Trump – most people don’t like him. It’s taking the country back from the entitled, ivy league “educated” people who lecture the rest of the country.

And in conclusion
What the scientist say about the election.

Carl Hamblin
Related Poem Content Details
Turn annotations off
By Edgar Lee Masters
The press of the Spoon River Clarion was wrecked,
And I was tarred and feathered,
For publishing this on the day the Anarchists were hanged in Chicago:
"I saw a beautiful woman with bandaged eyes
Standing on the steps of a marble temple.
Great multitudes passed in front of her,
Lifting their faces to her imploringly.
In her left hand she held a sword.
She was brandishing the sword,
Sometimes striking a child, again a laborer,
Again a slinking woman, again a lunatic.
In her right hand she held a scale;
Into the scale pieces of gold were tossed
By those who dodged the strokes of the sword.
A man in a black gown read from a manuscript:
'She is no respecter of persons.'
Then a youth wearing a red cap
Leaped to her side and snatched away the bandage.
And lo, the lashes had been eaten away
From the oozy eye-lids;
The eye-balls were seared with a milky mucus;
The madness of a dying soul
Was written on her face i
But the multitude saw why she wore the bandage."

Cal, who did you vote for? A Uruguayan? Look in the mirror before you decide my isolated opinion was somehow crucial to this national travesty.

I know. Your name has likely been hijacked once again by that perma-troll Ruben, shitting all over our conversation with his smug ignorance and Bart Simpson sensibility. My little bleats are like teaspoons of tears in an ocean of vast stupidity. Please: look in the mirror. Every one of you who didn't vote for Clinton was effectively voting for Trump. You need to take responsibility for this disaster. If you cast a protest vote because of me, you are very nearly psychotic.

There is no republic that can survive the extremism of the alt-right and the narcissistic left. There has to be a functional center, which means compromise. When that word gets tainted by people who are glib and historically illiterate, we collapse the very process that can keep government functional and democratic. The politics of self-righteousness are a dead end for that reason. No compromise, no peace.

Donald Trump is the Black Swan event of our American experiment. I take no pride in warning about his dangers but I do take umbrage at both the left and right for impugning the one candidate who was actually qualified and sane. Yes, she was a bad retail politician, wooden and uninspiring. So was Al Gore. But given the choice, there was NO choice. A large minority of voters, intoxicated by reality TV and their own obliviousness, abetted by an 18th-century electoral contraption called a "college", seized control of our civic steering wheel and headed this last great hope of mankind right over a cliff.


When I woke up this morning there it was, the sun rising in the east. I know you are sick about the results of this election, I understand your anger and disappointment. I felt the same when (as I saw it) the tone deaf ossified scions of the corp d management class rigged the nomination and attempted to shove HRC down the nations throat. At that point the election was over for me. I was and still am angry for the arrogant stupidity of that move. I knew that most the enthusiastic young folk I had seen at the caucus's would walk away from one more cram down by the insider peddlers of the status quo.

The link below is to an article by Glenn Greenwald. It is a very interesting take on why Clinton failed. The premise being that Clinton played it as a right/left thing and Trump played it as a top/bottom thing.

Since you live in Washington St. I suggest you stop in at one of you local pot shops and ask for something mellow. Go home pour a nice glass of wine or beer and fire up. Life goes on and we have a lot of work to do.



Our elections are always decided by a minority of the populous. The message to the #NeverTrump camp was clear: Don't Boo. Vote.

They did not vote. Now they want to boo.

They did not vote because, to them, Hillary wasn't good enough to vote for and Trump, based on turnout, wasn't bad enough to vote against. They sat out because these people don't have the fortitude to be part of the election process. They were going to accept Hillary if someone else put her in office. They were going to blame those who played if Trump won. Their hands are clean either way.

Now they're protesting a fair election. I don't care what side you are on -- if you lost the election because your base didn't play ball, that's nothing to protest. They're protesting math. They're protesting a known system. They're protesting others for succeeding in a zero-sum game where they failed. Actions speak louder than words and the actions show that Hillary supporters (if that's what you call someone who offers lip service but then doesn't deliver) did not care. That they were find with everyone else sorting it out and selecting a President.

They're protesting that "most Americans did not vote FOR Trump" so now they want Clinton. That's hogwash. Most Americans did not vote for Hillary either. In any other nation, that's grounds for a run-off. But they don't want a run off, they want Hillary with 48% of the vote. They want to use the Electoral College until they don't like the outcome and then they want to bitch and ammend the rules on the fly. Frankly put, it's fucking pathetic. These people are pathetic. The election was simple enough for Trump and his non college educated white base to understand in Appalachia; I don't see why people who see Trump as a bigger threat than Hitler couldn't just play ball, win, and go on their way. The numbers were there. They didn't need tricks. They didn't need games. They needed to vote.

They did not vote.

Sorry if I sound like an old curmudgeon but, especially the millennial voters who didn't have 20 minutes to mail in a ballot but have hours to protest mid-week, this isn't fucking high school anymore. You don't get to say, "Oh I forgot, the instructions weren't absolutely 100% clear and I need an extension to get this done so I can get course credit." Elections are a one-day event and life moves on. No one's waiting for you to get your ballot in because you meant to do it at the last minute but then your tire went flat. No one cares how you feel. Enjoy voting, don't enjoy voting -- feel how you want; just vote.

They did not vote.

Now, why they did not vote, I'm sure that will be looked at. But, and I know this is hard for people who are too prideful to cast a ballot for the lesser of two evils, the answer for the Democratic party is in the mirror. Maybe that will get me protested. It'll probably get me called a misogynist. But it's the truth. Had they voted as they said they would -- that is to say, had they gone through with their word to support #NeverTrump -- we wouldn't be looking for scapegoats anywhere.

blaxsabbath, Democrats are not evil, however. What is almost evil is your brain-dead False Equivalence that suggests if a sane incrementalist isn't pure, it's okay to vote for what really is evil. No. You grow up. You stop trying to turn reality into a Manichaean contest between absolute goodness and absolute evil. That is NOT reality and it never has been. I'm sorry if you're so flummoxed by politics that you think because Hillary Clinton isn't good enough for left-wing purists, it's okay to throw the election to an existential threat to our national survival.

We all failed here, I grant you, including Hillary. But let's be clear about this, okay? America lost. Not just Hillary, not just me, and not just the Democratic Party. America.

There's something else that really needs a deeper discussion, and it's how the Trump camp, according to their own admission, was in contact with the Russian government all during this campaign. This is so dark and depressing I can't begin to wrap my head around it.

And one more thing: it's becoming increasingly clear that the Comey letter in late October turned the tide on behalf of Trump. We need to ponder how a quasi-fascist cabal inside the FBI was able to do this on behalf of Republicans. Evil? You decide.

Here's Kevin Drum with some choice words about Comey: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/11/fuck-you-james-comey


IMHO, you've completely missed blaxabbath's point.

At least 4 times, he writes "They did not Vote".

Not that they voted for the wrong person.

I know you and data have a hard time, but check this out:


About 1/3 of the way down, there's a chart that shows total votes in 2008, 2012, and 2016. The red bar stays fairly constant but the blue bar drops from almost 70.0M in 2008 to about 59.0M in 2016.

Also from that article:

Clinton underperformed Obama in key counties with heavy black population. Was whole margin in Wisconsin and Michigan.

And who has confirmed that the protesters didn't vote?

Fox News no doubt. Another seed planted in the non-thinking American mind. So easy to manipulate.

Wisconsin enacted some of the strongest vote suppression laws. Guess who those were directed against? Not white people.

Actually, INPHX, I wasn't arguing that point blaxsabbath made. In fact, I referenced that very point upthread. What I was arguing was the implicit criticism of centrist politics in the "why vote for the lesser of two evils" meme.

Democrats are hamstrung by the structural advantage Republicans enjoy in the area of.....er.......pathological lying. There has to be some congruence between what we propose and what is achievable. We couldn't brazenly lie through our teeth like Donald Trump and suggest that everything would be fixed by simply installing a crude oversimplifier as president. We are checked by our own necessary ethical position: if you support government, you have to respect reality. This is extremely difficult to convey to low-information voters. Hillary didn't assert that it was possible to tear up trade agreements and thus restore Mayberry circa 1955. No one is going to change globalization. No one. Up until Trump, Republicans were quite happy to extol the benefits of free trade. I assume even cynical you were on board with that program. Trump himself virtually admitted he was just selling pie in the sky. He admitted to insiders he wasn't going to build a wall, deport 11 million Mexicans, or ban Muslims. It's was a sales job that worked only because our media was mesmerized by his chutzpah and let him normalize pathological lying.

This is your party now. But nothing excuses immorality better than success, right?

The FBI will have no funding problems for the next eight years.

soleri, don't explain ethics to INPHX. It's a foreign concept to the worm.

If this blog survives, we won't here INPHX harping about deficits anymore. That concept only applied with a Democrat in the White House.


First, try a reply with more than two lines. It might reflect some depth. Maybe.

I am very concerned about the deficits and that Trump's tax reductions MIGHT make them worse. The reality is that except for Rand Paul, none of the candidates seemed to be concerned about the deficits.

To me, it's the number one problem facing the world, not just the US.

The deficits are going to make us all snicker about global warming.

White supremacy started the last civil war. The next one will be the same.

Lower voter turnout has a lot to do with voter suppression and civic disengagement. Romney won more votes than Clinton did. But also, this get's to my point about white supremacy-why did we expect "latinos" to show up and vote for Tim Kaine? Clearly, that didn't work. There's a reason why Keith Ellison MUST be the next DNC chair-to ensure that the party represents its voters. This ticket didn't do that. We all lost, in part, because of that.

And honestly, I do hope that the older liberals on this blog take this under deep consideration. Identity politics work. They work really well. But inclusion is also a form of identity politics. And I bet more Americans want in on the interracial future which someone like Ellison can bring than the white supremacy which the Republican Party is currently riding into power.

But all the finger pointing, IMO, avoids the central concern of the discredited intellectuals-there is no serious response, from either party, on how to remedy the structural inequalities within our society. My yoga instructor just told me about how their aunt entered a nursing home which will, effectively, will consume her entire life savings unless she dies first. Some of my college educated peers are mad prop 206 passed because they don't think people without degrees should make more money-especially since they took on so much debt to get their degrees.

From cradle to grave our federal and state government helps private interests milk every possible dollar from our social reproduction. It is getting to the point where social reproduction, in and of itself, is both too expensive to maintain and too valuable to de-privatize.

Arizona has never recovered from the Recession--despite being basically a one-party state for the past decade--and our healthcare and education have suffered immensely for that. I have no faith that the Republican Party--now in control of the entire federal apparatus--will remedy these concerns in any remotely equitable way. It is not in their DNA at the state level; it will not be at the Federal level.

Instead, as has always been the case, violence directed at marginalized communities (both domestic and foreign) will continue even further. Perhaps this is why people are mad-they are afraid. But I would argue we should all be afraid. Depending on your perspective, Andrew Jackson is one of the best or worst presidents in American History. But I think we can all agree--he led a pack of violent white supremacists into power and their expansionary greed, eventually, led to the most costly war in American History.

There is no compromise with white supremacy. Only subjugation. And when white men run out of minorities to oppress they will attempt to subjugate each other. As they did in bleeding Kansas and eventually the first American Civil War.

We should have pushed harder to end the permanent war state under Obama. We should have pushed harder for structural reform. Now, a paranoid, socially-intolerant rural party has complete, unabated power-except that limited by the Constitution-to make sure we all live like they do. And since this is the "post-fact era," they will deny the impact those actions have on our communities. Our history portends an incredibly grim future.

PS-Sorry that this was so long and preachy. Please know it comes from a place of peace. It's preachy because the race war is upon us. And it's going to be started by white nationalists who seek to subordinate non-whites both in and outside of our nation.

Collectively, white people have never done a good job of standing up to those folks. But there is a climate to save and social reproduction to protect. White nationalism, similar to "radical jihad" or anything else which dis-incentivizes international trade, will lose: it's just not sustainable.

To paraphrase a very smart man who was just on one of the CSPAN channels:

The ruling elite declared "The election will be between Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton. We have spoken and you shall obey."

The Dems by not voting said to the ruling elite, sorry, no deal.

The Repubs, by voting said to the ruling elite, sorry, no deal.

P.S. are any of you surprised that me and Bart Simpson actually watch CSPAN? Who woulda thunk??

Funny how deficits weren't a problem when Reagan was president. He tripled the National Debt but IOKIYAR. Ditto W, who doubled it.

Trump will also be keen to practice some good old-fashioned Keynesianism once the recession hits next year. There will be some throat-clearing in the Freedom Caucus but they love their orange alpha male, so I'm sure they'll fall into line.

Climate change is not just a theory disdained by right-wing birdbrains. It's reality. And of all the cataclysms unleashed by Trump's win, this one will have the most dire consequences. I argued myself blue in the face with the purity trolls that this would literally swamp every other issue if we let a Republican (not just Trump) win. But purity is its own reward, I suppose. Zonies can contemplate the hidden meanings in science when their CAP allotment is reduced.


You know I'm extremely critical of Clinton and the center-left. I bitched about her up to and through election day, including while voting for her. I would still be bitching about her today too, had she won, because I didn't trust her to govern progressively without a constant progressive thumb pressing down on the back of her neck. You're damn right Clinton wasn't my choice, but she was my vote and that's all that matters in the Electoral College.

Clinton supporters did not translate into Clinton voters. That is why she lost. We hammer the importance of voting and people who say Trump is Hitler don't get out. We don't run a black candidate so the African Americans don't get out. Jan Brewer directly taunts the Hispanic block and says that they won't turn out. They didn't turn out. The most well-refined political campaigning machine, including historic support from a highly approved sitting President, a popular former President (in Bill), and millions of dollars in additional campaign money was unable to just get the same block of voters to repeat what they did in 2012.

But that's what happens when the establishment forces an uninspiring candidate on their base. The base doesn't switch, they just tune out. So how did your plan for sane incrementalism work out? It got fucking waxed. Waxed to the tune of the White House, both chambers of Congress, and is dead in the Supreme Court for decades. I'm in my 30's and can tell you that the strong progressive ideals that your plan promised to incrementally get to are dead for my lifetime. I'm not shedding a tear about it (the shock of the election has worn off on me) but I am refining my expectations. And, since the 'Sane Democrats' camp likes to sit just slightly to the left of the GOP, I suspect you refine your expectations more in line with Bush 2000 because that is where the DNC is going to think they need to sit to have the greatest potential for voters (who, again, may or may not actually vote).

And I know what you're already thinking -- would Bernie have lost too? Very likely. But Hillary was a sell out of progressive ideals and she still lost. So the Democratic party sold out for nothing. They compromised and still lost. We talk about the GOP being stubborn and archaic, you tell me what the Democrats are when their agenda seems to be, "Eventually there just won't be enough whites left that a 60% non-white turnout will get us over that permanent majority."

On the plus side, Phoenix's own Kyrsten Sinema is right in her wheelhouse now. With no chance of progressive policies getting traction, maybe now she'll get off of Paul Ryan's lap and start actually speaking up about progressive values. She apparently doesn't know how to vote when it matters (shutting down the government) but she knows how to show herself as the savior of the left when she's governing in garbage time.

And the next two years are, for democrats, garbage time.


I could not agree more with your take on why so many voted, or didn't vote to give the system the finger.

The underlying problem here is that Capitalism is killing the planet and crushing the poor. Our political structures are just fine with that as long as the campaign contributions keep rolling in.

Ruben, because this blog may well be on borrowed time, I want to finish our ongoing argument this way: you are someone with above-average intelligence, wit, and a - mostly - good nature. The trolling thing bothered me because it suggested that politics is just a game you can win with deception, mind fucks, and straw-man arguments. It's not. It's really the core of our ethical life, and if we don't take our opinions seriously enough to put our name on them, then we're playing politics in a way that sullies the entire endeavor.

I'm a very passionate liberal and I hang out here partly because I want to argue for its traditions and precepts, particularly inclusion and social justice. There is no real America without addressing these concerns. Any politician I support - and that includes Hillary Clinton - will necessarily speak to them. Part of this comes from reason - the core principles of the Enlightenment, e.g. - and part from our souls. We either feel this love of country in one another or we're coarsening the public discourse with ideology, self-seeking, con games, and indifference.

I'm not sure why those who feel contempt for poor people, intellectuals, and the unattractive want to share those failings with everyone else. It's a mystery to me. But it's painful because we all know that on one level or another we can be excluded. This is the pain many Americans feel - that they're not winners, therefore they don't count. This pain is evident not just in the losers, but the winners as well. We're all in this same boat. If you're diminishing another person, you're diminishing yourself. Where does the impulse come from? The very thing we're trying to protect ourselves against: one's own craving for love and connection.

We clashed, I think, on this idea that we're not all somehow sustained by an invisible but still tangible web of interdependence. We're all in this together. This idea sustains us even when we discount the other person or dehumanize those we regard as less than. This is what it means to be an American despite our alienation from others. It's the American Dream, not a nightmare. It's what we want to wake up to, not from. And it's this idea that includes the best of both of us. We will never be friends, but I apologize to you insofar as I made you feel as if you didn't belong here.

Will be interesting to see Trump face the GOP establishment and the Deep State. Impeachment? Or happy to be blowhard figurehead? Also we don't know his health.

Trump's only plan is To Make America Great Again. That is the sum total of his ideas.

The details will be left to Gingrich, Guiliani, Ryan, Bannon, Ailes, et al.

You could call it a "brain trust" I guess.

If you had a particularly dark sense of humor.

Thanks, Obama


From the article:

In 2009, the president’s first year in office, the Democrats held 257 House seats, a majority that was geographically and politically diverse. After Tuesday the figure stands at 193, and fully one-third of these Democrats hail from three blue states: New York, California and Massachusetts.

The story is equally grim for Democrats in the Senate. In 2009 they held the first filibuster-proof majority since the 1970s, which evaporated in the wake of ObamaCare. Tuesday’s vote was the best chance Democrats will have in years to retake the chamber, but they lost nearly every close race.

When Mr. Obama took office, Democrats owned 29 governorships. After Tuesday it is 15, with ballots in North Carolina’s tight race still being counted. Democrats controlled 60 of the 99 state legislative chambers in 2010. Today it is 30. Now that Republicans have won the Kentucky state House for the first time in 95 years, Democrats no longer control a single legislative chamber in the South. The party of the left will hold the governorship and both chambers in precisely five states.

Trumps only interest in making America great again is to make himself King. And he has a son named Baron to continue the royal line.
Stand by as Putin (worth 400 billion) and Trump (worth maybe 4 billion ) divide up the planet. And Putin is a experienced KGB Mankiller compared to Trump the car salesman pansy.


I truly hope that you stay with this blog. It's the only one I follow and would miss the debate at this critical time. Even if I disagree with some of your tactics I think we are working for similar goals.

Don't throw this blog off the Aurora Bridge!


As noted, you and data just don't get along very well. Light, airy, drive by references to Reagan and W's deficits are typical of, well, let's just call it "economics light".

There's a LOT of data here, so let me help you:

Debt – The U.S. government’s debt owed to the public has more than doubled. It is now more than $13.6 trillion, an increase of 116 percent since Obama first took office.



Doubled. Like, twice as much. Like as in more than all the previous deficits combined.

And we sure didn't get the peace dividend that Reagan delivered......

INPHX, gee, I wonder what the state of the economy and the budget deficit were when Obama took office (I said to myself while scratching my gnarly head).

Now that Republicans have control again, it's back to All Clear when it comes to mushrooming budget deficits, which only seem to matter when a Democrat is president. Remember those budget surpluses Clinton left W? Remember how people like you couldn't wait to rebate them to the rich? Remember how important it was not to pay for W's elective wars? Or Medicare Plan D?

Hypocrisy never goes out of style on the right. The excuses couple with the pathological lying that now forms the core messaging of the Republican Party.


I'm ready to go back to the Clinton years' spending amounts--


Double? C'mon.

I'm tired of you, INPHX. You're fired.

Gee, if INPHX truly is a paid troll that's one more lost job he can blame on Obama.

I don't really want to weigh in here much - I'm still not finished with the five stages.

But I would like to note a significant fact that is being neglected here.

Trump blew up the GOP (and yes, the DNC stabbed the Democratic party in the heart.)

I don't see Trump as being anything less than an embarrassment for however his term survives, but I think the populist wave that he and Bernie Sanders did to energize the electorate just might well draw both parties back to economic populism. Again, not with Trump as the head of the party, nor the aging Sanders.

But staring back at "Wall Street" was what #Occupy was all about. The corporate-favorable trade "deals," the exploitation and up-sucking of wealth by the "creative class," etc.

If either, or both, of these parties pull their respective heads out of their respective asses because of what happened in this season, then there's is a silver lining to this as-yet unmitigated disaster.

I mean, Bernie proved you can finance a fucking campaign without genuflecting to economic power. We do have the numbers, and this is supposed to be a democracy.

What Petro said.




And no...


Both of those articles miss the point, Jon. The fact that Trump won illustrates with crayons that this was an anti-establishment voter sentiment being expressed.

You and that other dude are free to disagree, of course.

Anyway, I'm looking forward at this point, against all odds.

It's a particularly specific form of masochism.

Well, Ruben, There still are more of our kind than there are of your kind, and we're pissed!
Feel free to sneer, however. It's one of the things your kind likes to do. It's called the Fascist sneer.

Great professionalism here. Besides being told to get fucked we now have Hattie Calling Ruben a fascist. She does even know this American native whose grandmother was scalped by a white man.
Looks like civil conversation has been lost to prejudicial emotion.

TENT CITY but first:

The numbers game
What do Michael Moore and a bunch of old white guys sitting around a campfire have in common?
Well, Michaels is kinda old. He dropped out of college and looks like he had some Union bones in his background. The old guys at the campfire, mostly laborers, couple of engineers and a forest service guy. Most union members and most not much college. Most frequent local bars that cater to old white guys but enjoy a mixed crowd. One of these bars is owned by a popular old Muslim guy. Few of these guys bother with computers and few have smartphones.
I tell you what for the most part they have in common., They knew in their bones Trump was going to win. So we gonna call this a “lucky guess”. Old guys out guessed the best pollsters in the world. I suggest that computers don’t have a pulse. And the pollsters locked in Kafka’s castle couldn’t get out to the bars or the campfires.

Who did I vote for? I get asked that question by a few rednecks in my area. I just answer Chapo. None of their business.
I have never admitted to my mother, my wives or anyone that I can recall of who I voted for. I might suggest who I couldn’t vote for. I can say that it aint my fault Hillary lost. Lost the election that was hers to lose and did a mighty fine job of losing it.

Tent City, Long story I’ll try and make it not too long. A tent city for a jail in Phoenix is not necessarily a bad idea if in fact there is a need at a time of overcrowding in prison facilities. But Joe’s tent city was not really about overcrowding that could be solved otherwise. It was about publicity. It was about getting votes by demonstrating he was tough on arrested but not usually convicted. So if you are arrested but innocent you still get to eat green baloney and wear pink under wear and be housed in tent city. The positive side of Tent City at least for about 8 months of the year was it was outside and not in the slimy concrete claustrophobic jail buildings. I am not sure about violence levels but I suspect they were lower in tent city than inside the dungeons. Should Penzone do away with Tent City. That’s his call.
What I hope Penzone will do is focus on professional high quality investigator training for detectives. And I hope he will move to a “softer” non-militarized version of police work. Send SWAT team folks to negotiator schools. Get rid of the tank. Like DPS, deputies could use a raise.

Bottom line, something I have advocated for years is to separate County Jails from Sheriffs. It just provides for financial abuses. And in Arapios case money to chase dishwashers.

My two biggest concerns about Trump.
The environment and the Freedom of the Press.

There was a riot outside my building up here in Portland the other night. Who rioted? The usual suspects: the anti-WTO anarchists, who leveraged the legitimate concern about Trump's win to hijack the kumbaya spirit of the evening for a higher purpose: nihilism. Right-wing media went nuts, as did the Orange Anus. It's not the congruences with a certain middle European nightmare that haunt me so much as the way they rhyme in a nation that no longer thinks anything works. Let's burn it all down.

There will be no Grand Reconciliation between the fascist left and fascist right. If you're happy Donald Trump won (if only to heighten those contradictions!), you are a fool and a fraud. Personality cults are the last resort of the glib and spiritually marooned. There is neither a road back to Mayberry or a jet-pack to the new workers' paradise. Whatever we do, it's going to be painful, partial, and possibly mortal. We are responsible, including you romantics who think revolution will fix something festering in the scar tissue where your souls used to be. Jargon won't fill that void because it's not a matter of knowing how to deploy empty but smart-sounding slogans. You either admit that you don't know or you will kill in service of your narcissism.

The trolling in this forum continues and I won't work myself into a dither complaining about it. It does move me to think there is a future for a blog like this one, however. Most people don't understand how the economy works, and from that infelicity springs several misunderstandings about reality itself. We are not tearing up trade agreements, bringing back textile or steel jobs, or making America great again with tariffs and tough-guy bravado. People have been set up for one more con job by the real-estate developer/con man, they're going to be even crazier the next time they vote (if they even vote at all). Someone should bear witness. Someone should explain to our steely-eyed zealots that it's not as simple as they think. It's not just a matter of purity and certitude. The economy is our reality and it's global. That must be patiently explained to our decent, hard-working salt of the Earth who voted to light a bonfire where our republic used to be.

Who could do that? I nominate Jon Talton.

Well said.I agree.

We shall overcome. Your voice is needed, Rogue.



Cal Lash-

Thanks for the response re: Tent City. I've looked around since the election and have found a few other sources have reported on the issue. Upon appearance, Tent City is a Guantanamo Bay-esque political landmine where the left wants it shut down and the right isn't going to allow the funding to let it be closed without embarrassing cuts elsewhere.

I'm no 'justice' expert and will leave the detail work up to those in the profession. Whether Penzone wants to keep it or not, I hope both sides listen to his reasoning for the decision. Centrists and economic-conservative whites put him in office, not just an overwhelming participation from the left (but we already know that about Election 2016). Tent City, as I understand, isn't cruel punishment and, for my two cents, I'd hope Penzone is more interested in keeping people out of prison than figuring out how to fit the most number of inmates in a facility.

Usually Sheriffs races don't matter much because, if you keep your nose clean and don't blow millions on lawsuits, the local populous will back the D/R. I'm from Tucson and never recall anyone really caring much about the Sheriff race (apart from typical D/R baseless support/hate). I hope Penzone gets support from the left and shows, simply, that Democrats can just put their nose down, work, and keep our community as safe as the law-and-order Republicans without having to mow down random black men or pull over any latino driving through Cashion. But we'll see -- with all the anger about the election and concern about police under a Trump administration, I won't be surprised to see us undermine ourselves by protesting moderate Penzone for not closing Tent City or continuing to do the dirty work that, frankly, any Sheriff must do.

Jeez -- and this is coming from the guy who couldn't stand Clinton's moderate positions.....

RC makes some good points. The Left in the Obama years has been pushing so hard it's bound to be off putting to many regular folks. Conventional wisdom was so off in the election prediction business this year, even though it would accurately predict AZ goes red once again. Presidential elections aren't won by getting majorities, they are won by building a coalition. You just need enough people, in the right places, to get more votes than any other candidate. Getting every single vote, even if you could, in California or New York would only get you so far. You have to get widespread support around the country, just enough to get a plurality in just enough of the right states. Small percentages can make a big difference. Trump had 1% more Registered republicans than Clinton had democrats, but independents broke for Trump by 6%. There are more registered democrats than republicans, but how many of them stayed home? I would bet a lot more than republicans. How many of them in the upper midwest voted for Trump because their party doesn't have anything to offer them anymore besides globalism and social liberalism? Enough to turn three states red for the first time since the 80's. Donald Trump - Trump! - won a higher percentage of black and hispanic voters than Romney did, but black turnout was down and hispanic wasn't up all that much. Interesting to me that Trump, the man who announced his campaign by saying in the most abrasive way possible that [some][illegal] Mexicans are rapists, got almost a third of the hispanic vote. Evangelical Christians are about 20% of the electorate and went for Trump 81%, which is more than George W. Bush got.

If anybody is interested in the perspective of those evangelical Christians who helped so much in winning the presidency for Trump, who has never claimed to be a very religious man, here is a link to a speech that went viral before the election. It is a 58 minute sermon, which is like kryptonite I'm sure to some on this forum, but very insightful as to how normal looking people could vote for a candidate RC considers a fascist and the protesters/rioters in the street consider the biggest threat to civilization ever. Text: http://dentonbible.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Continental-Divide.pdf or if you prefer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jew2dD_C2L8

Much shorter, but also interesting in explaining how normal, non-fascist, non-racist, non-any ad hominum you want to use, people could vote for Trump: http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/trumps-voters-were-hidden-in-plain-sight/

There are many rational reasons to vote Trump in this election. Many voters did so for many different reasons, some certainly not rationally (on both sides). Neither candidate was going to get a majority (50+%) in this election, it was simply a matter of putting together the right coalition. Big and small victories in many different places add up to a win. Obama was able to do it twice, but Hillary couldn't pull it off.

I seriously hope RC doesn't shut down this forum or quit writing articles here about national and Arizona politics and history. I like it because the articles are high quality, it gets me out of my echo chamber and has posters from a variety of perspectives who debate reasonably civilly, which is rare on the internet. I like Soleri's voluminous posts, even if I don't often agree, I don't consider INPHX a troll even if he does irritate liberals (unless I am also a much more occasional troll) and Cal can always be counted on to have a unique perspective. Don't get discouraged, Jon. A smart voice of opposition will always be useful.

Thanks for the support, all. I am inclined to keep fighting. I just get so tired of losing.

"There are many rational reasons to vote Trump in this election" ?

Perhaps you might list some.

He is White and Rich??

Rules if the age of a North American Hugo Chavez comes:

Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. ... markets become suckers for calming rhetoric from authority figures. So do people.

Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.

Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised.

Rule #5: Don't make compromises.

Rule #6: Remember the future.


Rule #7 don't underestimate the power of the DC bureaucracy. It has taken men way stronger and smarter than Trump and crushed their dreams into dust.

Blaxabbath, Your welcome.
A foot note: Tent City cannot be much worse than for Profit Prisons. Over the years I have not opposed capitalism as long as there are rigorous inspections and strict laws to enforce violations that are harmful to humans, animals and the planet. As a matter of fact I once worked for Arizona State government in downsizing agencies. State governments are mostly sad places to be an employee. I quit when the Governor and his aides backpedal on our agreement. They offered me a permanent position at about $60,000 a year but I moved on. While there I was able to get some folks into four ten work hours and take home vehicles instead of driving miles to get to work. Driving miles back from work sites and driving many miles home. Work started when you got in your vehicle with many job sites near your residence. Sadly since the nighties legislators have made working for the state even more miserable and insecure.

Regarding posters here, I come here to learn. And there are good posters here that enlighten me. I don’t get angry with "Trolls" as reading their posts is also a learning processes into their psyche. And my grandmother told me Anger was just a waste of energy. She also told me if I didn’t behave she was going to unscrew my belly button and my back would fall off. That was scarier than my dad with a belt.

To repeat myself I am extremely concerned about the environment. I come from Scottish origins that believe in Conservation, some would say they were conservatives. We always had a storm cellar full of food to brave the winter. The path from the house covered with shingles had a path that went by the storm cellar to the outhouse where piles of red and white corn cobs were stacked, But I fear that the meaning of conservative has become something of a monster. My concern about Freedom of the Press is that news about the condition of the environment will be shut down.

Glad to see A. Winter back. And other posters. If you don’t know who Petro is that’s probably OK with him as he runs beneath the surface, occasionally rising up on a wave of intelligent thought. He in my opinion is as brilliant as any one that comes to this blog. He hasn’t put much new on his Deconstructing the Manifest as of late but hopefully he will soon.

B. Franklin, Obama “pushing hard on the left”? I don’t agree. I will agree with Black Obama pushing against a wall built by bigoted white folks. I am sure White Woman Hillary will be extremely down over her loss but in the long run for her personally I think she will one day be OK with not having to face that same wall.

Jon, Never say Quit! But a break is in order. Plus you have to get out the next novel and bring home some bacon and Martini Mix. Maybe just put up a subject and let us all go freewheeling across the Galaxy.

“I hear there is a good Universe next door.” eec.

Here is a person that is so concerned about the environment and the election of Trump that he forfeited his $100,000 award from German Born Peter Thiel, a guy that probably can name his position in the White Trump empire.

Another opinion on whose to blame.


The Sierra Club on Trumps first 100 days.

Trump has released his agenda for the first 100 days. If fully implemented, it is a disaster for our country, our planet, and everything we have worked for:

SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia.

THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated.

FIFTH, lift the restrictions on American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.

SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow the Keystone Pipeline to move forward.

SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs.

From the Globalist news. Will Trump do it.

The following 14 points, all given voice and supported by Trump at some point during his mean-spirited campaign, would seem to form a basis for moving the country forward in a positive and bipartisan spirit.

1. A massive initiative to rebuild/improve/repair our infrastructure. (October 2016)

2. Improve the military but reduce the defense budget. (October 2015)

3. Accept gay marriage. (August 2015)

4. Agree that Stop-&-frisk is unconstitutional. (September 2016)

5. Support paid family leave. (September 2016)

6. Serve as an honest broker and negotiate a lasting treaty of peace between Israel and her enemies. (February 2016)

7. Condemn Russian & any other country’s involvement in our elections. (October 2016)

8. Promote maximum representation and maximum voter participation. (Apr 2016)

9. Educate the public on value of comprehensive vaccinations. (October 2016)

10. Institute some form of universal health care. (July 2000)

11. Fix veteran’s hospitals, and pay private doctors to treat vets in the meantime. (September 2015)

12. Raise minimum wages, nationally and in the states. (May 2016)

13. Get rid of carried interest deduction for brokers (October 2016)

14. Support the exploration of space (October 2016)

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